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Thread: Ferric Oxalate

  1. #1
    Andrew O'Neill's Avatar
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    Ferric Oxalate

    I'm hoping that Sandy King or someone else with lots of experience with kallitypes will respond. I am mixing up some FO for the first time in distilled water at about 52 C. It's sitting on a hot plate.
    Man, they weren't kidding when they said it takes a long time to go into solution.
    When I mixed in the FO it looks creamy coloured. I'm mixing mixing mixing...getting pretty sick of mixing. It's still hasn't mixed in. When it is finally in solution, is it clear? What does it look like?

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    donbga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew O'Neill View Post
    I'm hoping that Sandy King or someone else with lots of experience with kallitypes will respond. I am mixing up some FO for the first time in distilled water at about 52 C. It's sitting on a hot plate.
    Man, they weren't kidding when they said it takes a long time to go into solution.
    When I mixed in the FO it looks creamy coloured. I'm mixing mixing mixing...getting pretty sick of mixing. It's still hasn't mixed in. When it is finally in solution, is it clear? What does it look like?
    Andrew,

    A 20% mixture of FO for kallitype should go into solution fairly quickly if you start with distilled water heated almost to boiling. You may have to keep the solution heated (@ 170-200F) and shake it a few times to get it to dissolve. With fresh powdered FO I can get mine dissolved in a few minutes working with water this hot.

    When the FO dissolves it should be clear not milky. If it hasn't dissolved completely over night and it's still cloudy you may have some bad FO.

    Don Bryant
    Don Bryant

  3. #3
    Andrew O'Neill's Avatar
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    Well, I had the solution up to about 76 Celcius, stirring occasionally. Don't know if it all went in as I was working under a very weak light. I let it cool and bit and then poured it into a little brown bottle. I'll let it sit until tomorrow morning. If it hasn't cleared, I'll try it one more time starting with the solution at 76 (about 170 F) and then complain to the place I got the FO from if it still doesn't work.
    Thanks for your help!

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    When and from whom did you get the ferric oxalate? I got one strange batch from B&S last July that just would not go into solution.Even after on and off stirring and heating over a two week period. Another batch I got later goes into solution in less than an hour. I sent the goofy batch back to them for an exchange, which they were glad to do.
    I just want to feel nostalgic like I used to.


    http://www.clayharmon.net - turnip extraordinaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew O'Neill View Post
    I'm hoping that Sandy King or someone else with lots of experience with kallitypes will respond. I am mixing up some FO for the first time in distilled water at about 52 C. It's sitting on a hot plate.
    Man, they weren't kidding when they said it takes a long time to go into solution.
    When I mixed in the FO it looks creamy coloured. I'm mixing mixing mixing...getting pretty sick of mixing. It's still hasn't mixed in. When it is finally in solution, is it clear? What does it look like?
    It seems that a lot of weird FO is going around. I don't understand it at all. I was using a batch late last year from Artcraft that had previously gone into solution with no problem. Then, the next batch I tried to mix would not go into solution at all, in spite of much patience, stirring and heat. I was pretty desperate since I needed to make some prints and Clay saved my butt by sending me some of his mixed FO.

    Since then I tried another batch (not going to mention suppliers here because I have had problems withi FO from all three of the big one) and it would not go into solution either.

    I took all of this as a sign from the gods that I needed to go back to carbon printing and leave all of this heavy metal printing to greater minds.

    One thing that did seem important to me was a note from one of the B&S boys, can't remember if it was Kevin or the hard-working one, to the effect that you should only heat the solution once, since in the B&S researcha and data they had seen some negative with regard to results from multiple heatings.

    Sandy King
    Last edited by sanking; 03-10-2007 at 05:04 PM. Click to view previous post history.

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    Andrew O'Neill's Avatar
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    Thanks for replying, Sandy.
    I went down into my darkroom to take a look at my FO. I could see a little light mocha-coloured sludge on the bottom of the bottle. I poured a wee bit of the liquid out into a glass and it is kind of a light yellowish colour. Does that sound normal?
    I purchased the FO from Jdphotochemical in Quebec, Canada.

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    billschwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew O'Neill View Post
    .. it is kind of a light yellowish colour. Does that sound normal?
    That sounds right.

    Bill

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    Andrew O'Neill's Avatar
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    I spent all day in my darkroom. I mixed up the sensitizer and brushed it on my paper. Exposed for about 7 minutes, developed in sodium citrate, cleared in EDTA (I didn't have any citric acid), and fixed. Didn't bother with toning. I'll worry about that when I nail down exposure/dev and processing.

    Just by looking at the print I can tell that I over exposed it. The highlights are too dark. I backed off on the exposure quite a bit but highlights still have slight reddish/brown tinge. Is this the stain that needs to be removed by the clearing bath? Is citric acid better than EDTA? The paper I used was good for Van Dykes...I even gelatin sized it.

    Also, the darkest areas are a bit spotty...not grainy...detail is lost. Any ideas what could be causing this?

    Man this is hard when one is on ones own and one has no real kallitype to look at...

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    donbga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew O'Neill View Post
    I spent all day in my darkroom. I mixed up the sensitizer and brushed it on my paper. Exposed for about 7 minutes, developed in sodium citrate, cleared in EDTA (I didn't have any citric acid), and fixed. Didn't bother with toning. I'll worry about that when I nail down exposure/dev and processing.

    Just by looking at the print I can tell that I over exposed it. The highlights are too dark. I backed off on the exposure quite a bit but highlights still have slight reddish/brown tinge. Is this the stain that needs to be removed by the clearing bath? Is citric acid better than EDTA? The paper I used was good for Van Dykes...I even gelatin sized it.

    Also, the darkest areas are a bit spotty...not grainy...detail is lost. Any ideas what could be causing this?

    Man this is hard when one is on ones own and one has no real kallitype to look at...
    Can you post a scan of the print? Which paper are you using? Generally there should be not need to gelatin size the paper.
    Don Bryant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew O'Neill View Post
    I spent all day in my darkroom. I mixed up the sensitizer and brushed it on my paper. Exposed for about 7 minutes, developed in sodium citrate, cleared in EDTA (I didn't have any citric acid), and fixed. Didn't bother with toning. I'll worry about that when I nail down exposure/dev and processing.

    Just by looking at the print I can tell that I over exposed it. The highlights are too dark. I backed off on the exposure quite a bit but highlights still have slight reddish/brown tinge. Is this the stain that needs to be removed by the clearing bath? Is citric acid better than EDTA? The paper I used was good for Van Dykes...I even gelatin sized it.

    Also, the darkest areas are a bit spotty...not grainy...detail is lost. Any ideas what could be causing this?

    Man this is hard when one is on ones own and one has no real kallitype to look at...

    Regarding exposure, remember the mantra, expose for the shadows, develp for the highlights. In alternative printing what you do is first determine the correct exposure to give maximum density, then adjust development so that the exposure scale of the process matches the DR of your negative. If we do this, the highlight should have the right density when the print is given the shortest exposure needed to get maximum density in the shadows. If this does not happen you will need to adjust the contrast, either by developing your negatives for more contrast, or adding dichromate to the developer to give more contrast in the print.

    Grainy look results from pape choice. Most papers that work for pt/pd work equally well for kallitype. Lots of grain suggests that the paper you chose does not have a good sizing.

    Gelatin sizing is not needed in kallitype and pt/pd printing. In fact, it can cause a lot more problems. Some of the early work done with kallitype a century or so ago have formulas for including gelatin in the coating, and it can be made to work, but not easily.

    Sandy King
    Last edited by sanking; 03-12-2007 at 09:31 AM. Click to view previous post history.

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