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  1. #11
    donbga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harrigan View Post
    Mastering gum printing is incredibly difficult. I've never attempt to make tri color gum prints, myself. I would expect it to take alot of work.

    I use gum for placing colors of my choice in certain areas of the image and for making color images that are not really color accurate.

    Is there a free source of information that describes getting good accurate tri color gum prints? When I was looking into it there was this guy who figured it out but he wouldn't tell anyone how to do it unless you paid him a couple grand or something. I can't remember his name, is it one of the links listed here?
    You are perhaps speaking of Stephen Livick.

    http://www.livick.com/

    He used to sell a book but I believe it is out of print now.

    Also you may wish to have a look at Keith Taylor's web site for some intresting information:

    http://www.keithtaylorphoto.com/

    Gum printing is impossible to learn and does take practice, perfecting the process is another issue. As one gum printer I know said, 'There are no rules in gum printing'. That's sounds a bit contradictory until one starts practicing gum for a while.
    Don Bryant

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harrigan View Post

    Is there a free source of information that describes getting good accurate tri color gum prints? When I was looking into it there was this guy who figured it out but he wouldn't tell anyone how to do it unless you paid him a couple grand or something. I can't remember his name, is it one of the links listed here?
    Hmm, I can't think who that would be. Don suggested Stephen Livick, but to my recollection, Stephen Livick hasn't been that stingy with information, has he? He gave an online course in gum printing through Bostick and Sullivan several years ago (was there a fee charged for that? I don't remember) and I think his website includes an illustrated tutorial on printing tricolor gum. I've disagreed with many of the categorical pronouncements he's made about gum, but I'm not sure it would be fair to say he's not been open about his methods.

    I've had a web page on tricolor gum in the works for over a year now, but I've moved twice in that time and spent considerable time between the moves looking for a house, as well as being sick a lot, so I haven't made much progress on that project; it's still sitting on the back burner. But hopefully once I get unpacked and settled and rested, I can finish that.

    Here's a brief preview: the introduction to my page on achieving color accuracy will say that it's not that difficult to achieve "good-enough" color accuracy using a variety of three-pigment combinations. Our eyes and brains have a remarkable tendency to read any color representation as an accurate representation, as long as it retains the relative hue relationships and tonal relationships of the original image. If what should be green is green, if what should be blue is blue, etc, and if the tonal relationships are proportional to the original, our eyes and brains say that's a good enough representation. However, if instead of relative color accuracy, the goal is absolute color accuracy where every color in the representation is an *exact* match of the color in the original image, that's an incredibly difficult task to achieve in tricolor gum, as I discovered when I started testing different color combinations to try to find the "best" pigment combination for color accuracy. But I'll save the rest of that discussion for my web page. In the meantime, I'd refer people to handprint.com, because Bruce MacEvoy has some good insights about this which are consistent with my own observations.

    Katharine

  3. #13
    Struan Gray's Avatar
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    Sandy King has a series of articles in Magnachrom magazine on Carbon printing which mentions colour carbon prints. www.magnachrom.com - you have to register, but it's free.

    His articles tipped me off to Pictoform in Göteborg Sweden. They tend towards an interpretive rather than an accurate colour palette, but they have nice examples of colour carbon and colour gum prints on their website: www.pictoform.nu

  4. #14

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    My point being to the person who asked about alt color is that you can't just jump right in and start making good color accurate gum prints. It is very difficult and even finding the correct info on how to do it can be a daunting task. While this has never been my goal I have never come across a good description of the tri color process anywhere. Standard gum printing isn't as difficult but getting good gum prints takes alot of work and trial and error.

    Suffice to say in the time it takes me to make one gum print I can make perhaps 10 platinum prints or more.

    I have no idea on carbon prints but this also looks to be very labor intensive. Andrew Glover describes it humorously as a process for the unemployed or the idle rich.

  5. #15
    donbga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harrigan View Post
    My point being to the person who asked about alt color is that you can't just jump right in and start making good color accurate gum prints. It is very difficult and even finding the correct info on how to do it can be a daunting task. While this has never been my goal I have never come across a good description of the tri color process anywhere. Standard gum printing isn't as difficult but getting good gum prints takes alot of work and trial and error.

    Suffice to say in the time it takes me to make one gum print I can make perhaps 10 platinum prints or more.

    I have no idea on carbon prints but this also looks to be very labor intensive. Andrew Glover describes it humorously as a process for the unemployed or the idle rich.
    There are still two openings in my tri-color gum workshop being held July 20 - 22 at the Spruill Art Center here in Atlanta. Come on down and I can get you off to a good start making tri-color gums! It's not that difficult.
    Don Bryant

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Struan Gray View Post
    His articles tipped me off to Pictoform in Göteborg Sweden. They tend towards an interpretive rather than an accurate colour palette, but they have nice examples of colour carbon and colour gum prints on their website: www.pictoform.nu
    Thanks for mentioning that; I love Chia's gum work, and enjoyed seeing more of it.

    And it was also interesting to see their color work that was printed from older black and white negatives, using probably the selective method mentioned by Harrigan earlier.

    I personally prefer using color to achieve a muted, unsaturated effect or an arbitrary color balance to attempting to reproduce color accurately; it's only because people often ask me how to get an exactly accurate color balance in tricolor gum that I got curious and started doing these tests.

    But looking at Hans and Chia's site, where they offer printing services in "four-color" gum, reminds me again what I told the original poster in a private message the other night: pretty much without exception those of us who work in color alternative processes make our color separations digitally, output to imagesetter or to inkjet printer (and I believe that includes all of the links that were provided here, except for the link to the French site where the person is making analog separations and hoping eventually to make gum prints from them but hasn't actually done that yet). I can only think of a couple of people I know of who have done three-color gum from incamera separations using filters, and as far as I know, they did it only once or twice out of curiousity; the bulk of their work is done with digital separations.
    Katharine

  7. #17
    Struan Gray's Avatar
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    My wife's great uncle Wilfred was a fine art book printer, and among other things was responsible for the subscribers' edition of T.E.Lawrence's "Seven Pillars of Wisdom". Family legend has it that for every penny he earned printing books, he lost two trying to do four colour gum printing on a commercial basis. :-)

    I haven't seen the Pictoform work in person, but it's another reason to visit Göteborg sometime soon. I was particuarly intrigued by the carbon prints on glass.

    Personally, I have always loved intaglio prints, so I suspect my own form of hybrid impurity will take the form of colour polymer gravure. First though, I have to see to my seeing.

  8. #18
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    I've only tried a little bit so far, but I've been trying to make color gum prints without using tricolor separation. I do a light colored monochrome layer to start. Then I use differential color gum to paint in different parts of the scene once I have a visible base image. I'll do as many coatings as necessary to evoke a full color image.
    Paul

  9. #19
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    What about dye transfer? Is this archival process still an option? When I was a kid, I had the dream of making dye transfers but never took a stab at it due to the expense. The process requires making three registered separation negatives.

  10. #20

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    Dye Transfer is still being done today by several individuals. We have worked to revive the process since Kodak dumped it several years ago. I have developed a workable matrix film, and we have had it produced in Croatia by Fotokemika. I make prints in dye on a regular basis, up to 30x40" in size. Please visit the site: www.dyetransfer.org to find out more about the process. Regards - Jim Browning

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