Friedman has published "The History of Color Photography" with many examples of alternative color photography. In addition, Leadly and Stegmeyer published a small book on color processes available in the mid 1900s.
Jim Browning's dye transfers are superb. Ctein is also making beautiful dye transfers. Jim does them from slides, while Ctein does them from negatives.
3 COLOR PRINTING BY GUM
please excuse me for resurecting this thread-but i think maybe you have all missed some things
Originally Posted by Katharine Thayer
1. color separation by in camera negs or digital requires that you know what you are doing and where you are going
other wise you are re-inventing the wheel and generaly you get wheels that don't roll
any tech school training for pre-press before the desktop revolution could turn out people with the theory and knowledge
running a 60x60 0r 30x30 flatbed and haveing to turn out the negs to keep a busy commercial printer on schedual for a couple of 10 yrs will give you the practical end
remember that each 4/color needs 4 negs-cymk and each neg may need 3 exps-main, shadow flash, and highlight bump
this kind of experience is directly applicable to all so called alt process "art" photography since these processes are in fact what is in use every day in any form of printing-screen, offset, litho, gravure etc, and these were at one time what was main stream photography
so if you ask somebody who knows you might get an answer-IF YOU CAN GET DOWN ON THE GROUND AND OUT OF THE FANTASY DAYDREAMS LONG ENUF TO LISTEN
pre-press- 4/c strippers, plate makers, camera operators etc all are working all day long every day with the standardized materials that were once consumer products for the photo trade and are now available to any one who knows what to ask for-BUT NOT AT THE PHOTO STORE SINCE TIME MARCHES ON AND NEW REPLACES OLD BUT NOT CAUSE ITS BETTER
the point of this rant is that a 4 or 3 color print is a printing process and not 'photography' and color theory and its practical application is easy to get if you WORK at it BUT YOU MUST START FROM THE POINT OF SUCCESS
***get a pocket "printers pal" and the chapter on in camera color seps will start you from a proven place of success***
if you can ignore all the blahblogery that sells the software and hardware that must be updated every 6 mos you can get results from your pc that will also work
2. the inter-action of pigments with emulsion and sensitisers is so complex that if you don't start with a proven, standardized combination; or if you change anything and sub a new supplier etc you will get lost immediatly
standardization is very difficult with gum arabic
solution: DON'T USE GUM ARABIC ; OR IF YOU MUST, BUY A STANDARD COMERCIAL SOLUTION WHICH TAKES SOME OF THE VARIABILITY OUT OF THE MIX
EX: saul the coffee man, in costa rica, sells some gelatine and/or gum granules that you can mix up yourself and since he is also a world class artist you know that it will work
there are plenty of other substances that you can use instead of gum arabic and you can buy them in the 99cent store
"there are no rules in gum printing" really means that you never knew the rules and you don't have the skills and craft-any high school chemistry class will give you all the tools you need to be able to repeat success, even if you failed chemistry class
in 1976 i was the " tech" at the art dept of a college in a major university-that meant that while i taught the large format photo class, the tenured head of the photo dept got the very nice salary-so i went commercial and never looked back
i was a "commercial artist" and a"photomechanical artist" and a "commercial photographer" and i also was hung in juried shows
my day job was in the adv biz and at home i created "fine art" but now i am 100% dis-abled
please feel free to avail yourselves of my experience
vaya con dios
Photography and printing have been strongly connected over the history of photography and generations of photographers have employed techniques which fall under printing techniques and were not advised to go to a printer instead.
Many photographers used several imbibition processes over history employing only three colours.
"photography" and printing by press and or litho stone or photogravure or photosilkscreen are of course 2 sides of the same coin
Originally Posted by AgX
my point is that a process camera operator could(and this one does) produce 3 color pigment prints , or mag +yelo over cyanotype or 6 color or what ever with complete consistency while asleep standing on his/her head
since the photomechanical processes and mediums continued to develope technically in the printing trades , the attempt by fine art types to duplicate past processes are re-inventing the wheel since what was everyday in the store supplies 100 yrs ago are of course no longer there
those emulsions and chemestries and techniques survive today in the printing industry with the modern equivilents of the old ingrediants
if i know how to separate a full color subject into a cyan, yelo, magenta and black printer(neg) and if i know how to finese each separate neg with a main, shadow and highlight exp and i know the properties of pigment inks and how they behave when suspended in sensistized emulsions---
how can a simple 3 color gum print be a big mystery?????
of course if you don't know the simple mechanics of pin registration of multiple negs and overlays and compositing in a vacuum frame with, say, 10 separate negs---
then i guess that eyeballing 3 negs into regestration and taping them down so as to get consistnt prints would be an overwhelming task that could only be accomplished by supernatural beings in mythical tales of old-right???????
a digital photographer who prints out via an inkjet is actually a "printer" since that inkjet is actually haltoning the images ,and, since they were captured via a digital camera were never actually continuous tone at all, so rightly they are not photography
but any continous tone "photographic" print must be converted to some type of "printing process" to be published unless you are only going on the web
if a "photographer" would learn just the basics of any printing process, then any of the "alt processes" become transparent in technique
What are they?
Originally Posted by z-man
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I might note here that the purity of many of the printing inks and hte halftone process itself are partly the cause of the need for the 'k' in the c/m/y/k printing system.
In photography, the continuous image, coupled with the less pure dyes add the 'k' component all on their own. Of course, there is always a tiny bit of retained silver in the dye image of chromogenically developed prints that contribute to this as well, making blacks black.
I have to agree with z-man in his posts. Don't reinvent the wheel and come up with a square one.
COMO SE DICE "GLUE" EN ESPANYOL?
QUE TAL HERMANITO?
Originally Posted by juan
EN LA TIENDA ESTAN TODOS
try elmers for a start-i like "school glue"
vaya con dios a todo
Who makes negatives anymore? Isn't everything pretty much direct to plate now?
Originally Posted by z-man
Back in the days when there was no digital I made quite a number of three-color gum and carbon/carbro prints from in-camera separations using filters, or in some cases from separations made from transparencies with an enlarger using filters. My colleague Sam Wang also did a lot of work in color gum with in-camera separations. It was very complicated work and controls were quite limited.
Originally Posted by Katharine Thayer
Now that we have the computer and Photoshop to generate color separations I don't believe anybody in his right mind who is really interested in the final print, as opposed to ideology, would even consider wet processing color separations outside of doing so as a historical curiosity.
[Moderator's Note: Unfair implication directed personally at another participant.]
PE is right; the need for a k layer in the cmyk printing process was generated largely by the impurities in the process inks used, and I'll take his word for the halftone process having something to do with it to. Whether one can achieve a solid black in gum with three colors and three layers depends on the pigments chosen and the concentration of those pigments. But if "not re-inventing the wheel" means using process printing inks and commercial printing methods to print gum, I'm not really interested in that at all.
Last edited by David A. Goldfarb; 06-28-2007 at 11:59 AM. Click to view previous post history.