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  1. #11

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    Hello Tim, this is Tim ;-)

    I can well remember the frustrations of trying to balance all the variables when experimenting with my 1st lith prints so I know your frustrations! ;-)
    Only then, there was nothing written up about the process, so it was a bit more taxing to work out what was happening and why.

    You are getting excellent advice on this thread. Missing the snatch point is oh-so-easy if you work with subdued safelights because of the long unsafe periods. You get so used to looking at a faint tone that, when a mid tone appears, you think it is a black; but it isn't. The fixer soon reveals the truth!
    The colour change in what I call 'fix-up' makes it look as though many of the tones disappear. Room light and dry down go some way to counter the loss of tonality - but a mid tone is still not a black.

    In my workshops, I notice that judging the snatch point is always harder for people who don't use a safelight torch, unless they have bright sodium lights (not without their own problems). The tendency is to snatch before a true black has formed. A quick flask of the safelight torch will show a black as black, but a mid tone that is pretending to be a black will almost disappear under the safelight torch. Your RH Design torch will sort that out for you. Once you see the difference you won't get it wrong again (too often! ;-) )

    The advice to use a larger volume of developer is good advice too. There will be less change from print to print.

    The rest is just a bit of practice, but the process is actually quite easy in a 'learning to ride a bike' way. It suddenly clicks and you are off. A Rudman workshop can help a bit in this process ;-)

    Let us know how you get on.
    Tim

  2. #12
    Gay Larson's Avatar
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    I agree with all that has been said and I also got the RH design torch at Tim Rudman's workshop and it works well and leaves a hand free to continue rocking the tray. Before I got it, I went to a sporting goods store and got a small mag light with a red filter. I put a clear colored robber glove over the front just to be sure it was not too bright and fastened it with a rubber band and it worked pretty well. So if you want to have something before you get your safe light torch the mag light torch is pretty inexpensive and will help in the mean time. Once you get that great print, you will be hooked. Tim's books helped me immensly. Happy Lith printing!
    Prints available in the APUG GAllery
    www.gaylarsonphotography.com

  3. #13
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    One thing I forgot to mention is that I have a strip with a step wedge grayscale taped to the wall next to my developer tray. This helps in identifying desirable tones if you're not keen on the torch or extremely bright safelights. It works very well, and it truly helps me pulling the print out of the developer right when it's time.
    Remember to dunk the print in the stop bath right away. Don't let the developer run off the print. Just soak it in stop in less than a heart beat after snatching it.
    - Thomas
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim rudman View Post
    Hello Tim, this is Tim ;-)
    Hi!

    You are getting excellent advice on this thread. Missing the snatch point is oh-so-easy if you work with subdued safelights because of the long unsafe periods. You get so used to looking at a faint tone that, when a mid tone appears, you think it is a black; but it isn't. The fixer soon reveals the truth!
    The colour change in what I call 'fix-up' makes it look as though many of the tones disappear. Room light and dry down go some way to counter the loss of tonality - but a mid tone is still not a black.
    You've hit the nail on the head there - that's been exactly my problem. It's more depressing when you know that's what you're doing but still fall for it the next time . I deliberately massively overexposed a sheet last night though and developed it way beyond my 'comfort point' as it were though, so I can now safely say I at least now know what I'm looking for...

    A quick flask of the safelight torch will show a black as black, but a mid tone that is pretending to be a black will almost disappear under the safelight torch. Your RH Design torch will sort that out for you. Once you see the difference you won't get it wrong again (too often! ;-) )
    Torch and your book were both dispatched yesterday apparently, so I'm waiting with bated breath :-).

    The rest is just a bit of practice, but the process is actually quite easy in a 'learning to ride a bike' way. It suddenly clicks and you are off. A Rudman workshop can help a bit in this process ;-)
    I'm hoping you're right . Being positive, I'm sure my 'normal' printing really ought to improve as a result of this as well - I'm learning a new appreciation for patience and attention to detail.
    A workshop sounds a wonderful idea - sadly, I'm not sure I could convince my wife that a trip to Montana is warranted at the moment, but I shall keep a keen eye out for anything happening back here in Blighty .

    Let us know how you get on.
    Tim
    Thank you, and everyone else, for the encouragement and help; it really is amazing.
    Another day goes under; a little bourbon will take the strain...

  5. #15
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    One little point not mentioned

    Because lith printing is totally a visual process *snatch point* who here has found that lith printing has improved your regular printing?
    I know that I definately am looking at my prints for emergence , highlight and shadow much more now because of lith printing.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by tim_walls View Post
    Hi!

    Torch and your book were both dispatched yesterday apparently, so I'm waiting with bated breath :-).
    Which book did you order Tim? (There are 2 on Lith)
    Tim

  7. #17
    rst
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    Because lith printing is totally a visual process *snatch point* who here has found that lith printing has improved your regular printing?
    I know that I definately am looking at my prints for emergence , highlight and shadow much more now because of lith printing.
    It has even more impact on my regular printing. I am not doing lith printing for a very long time but it slowly starts to replace my regular printing. Well that might be a sign that I do not enough printing anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by tim rudman
    A Rudman workshop can help a bit in this process ;-)
    I can only speak for a Wolfgang Moersch workshop and that was absolutely worth it. A workshop gives you a more steep learning curve and avoids alot of the frustrations that you may have when teaching this process to yourself.

    ciao
    -- Ruediger

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim rudman View Post
    Which book did you order Tim? (There are 2 on Lith)
    Tim
    Both! MPLPC should arrive tomorrow I believe, TWOLP is on order; I'd have ordered them directly, but I'm kind of trying to support my local branch of Waterstones by ordering books from them. This is my own futile attempt to stop the high street bookshop being killed off by Amazon :-).
    Another day goes under; a little bourbon will take the strain...

  9. #19

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    Actually, just yesterday I was wondering which one to get, but I figured, not being interested in digital techniques, that the old one would be more appropriate. Is that correct?

    PS Oh, first post, hi everyone.

  10. #20
    Ole
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    Well, hi!

    Yes, I would recommend the MPLPC to begin with. And TWOLP for inspiration and updates.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

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