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  1. #1
    q_x
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    any way to produce UNCURLED carbon paper?

    Hi there!
    Me again.

    I've been googlin this for a week. If there was some post here (or somewhere else) - please give me a link if you can.
    I know this is a common issue, but...
    Is there any way to produce uncurled carbon paper? Is making curtain coater the only way? (I've seen the patents, looks promising)

    What I was trying:
    Coating both pre-soaked and dry papers.
    pouring pigmented gelatin solution and spreading with fingers or with rod (fingers was better), with or without the frame.
    PE-like coating blade surrogate (wooden [ bracket with rod in place of the blade), works fine and gives even coats, but paper curls.
    or with serigraph/silkscreen V-shaped aluminum coater
    The coater looks like a aluminum gutter or a half-pipe with closed ends. I poured liquid coat into, pressed it onto a paper and moved all down - this way coating the paper. It was something like 75% waste of of the coating solution. The paper remained *almost* uncurled, but the coat was to thin, so I think with thicker coat it will be more curled.

    I've also tried to pour coat directly onto the glass and put wet paper onto it. After drying I was unable to separate the tissue with support and glass - the sandwich is taking long bath now.

    I used papers:
    One-side coated offset printing paper (used for calendars), something like 150 g/m2
    Fabriano Accademia 120g/m2
    ordinary white office paper 80g/m2

    Coats have 7-20% of edible gelatin, pigment, sugar, and sometimes soap, thickness varying from 0,5 to 2mm.

    And paper after drying was always curled. Less or more, but always. If less - It was left to flatten under heavy load. If cracks while trying to fit it in there - it goes to trash.

    Any hints to make the paper flat?

    I know one good way: Buy myself 10 plexi, PVC or glass sheets (my wallet say it is maximum for now), but it is not cheap, not easy to store or wash, and allows me to go with small runs only. Using old LF Photo sheets is not a good way for me (don't have it), but maybe inkjet/laser transparencies will work?

    Next thing I'm going to try will be 0,3-0,5 mm thick 50% gelatin layer - almost like a paste - and coating dry paper with PE's blade surrogate.

    Cheers,
    Luke
    Use the Force, Luke!

  2. #2
    Whiteymorange's Avatar
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    I'm afraid I don't know the process, so I may be talking "through my hat" as my Dad used to say, but one of the ways to compensate for curl when coating paper for other processes it to coat the other side as well. Just as painting the back of a wooden panel prior to painting the front keeps warping down, the coating of both sides of the paper can compensate for curl. Can you use un-pigmented gelatin on the back, or would the next steps of the carbon process be compromised by that?

  3. #3
    q_x
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    This may be a good idea. I'll try to dip-in the paper, so Ill get both sides coated at once.
    Don't know how to dry such a coat, I must probably rotate the paper while waiting until gelatin sets, and next hang it to dry.
    Worth trying, so i'll try.
    Thanks
    Use the Force, Luke!

  4. #4
    rwyoung's Avatar
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    Disclaimer : never done carbon printing but I've been fooling around a lot with cyanotypes, salt prints and now gum bichromate so there is a lot of wet paper time involved...

    I've spritzed the back side of a sheet of watercolor before coating the front. Just some distilled water in a clean spray bottle. Made the back just damp and it seems like I didn't get as much curl after rod coating the front pretty heavy with cyanotype solution. YMMV.

    I've often seen it recommended for various alt processes to steam or damp the back side with a sponge before coating.

    One other thought, you could try soaking the paper for a bit in hot water (as hot as your hands can stand) in a clean tray. Then hang to dry. This pre-shrinks the paper prior to adding any other sizing. Maybe it would help. Maybe it would make a mess. Maybe it makes no difference with carbon.

    With some luck, Sandy King will spy this thread and chime in.
    Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things! http://rwyoung.wordpress.com

  5. #5
    q_x
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    Oh, I see you like Solaris!
    Ive been trying to coat both side wet papers. Results failure.
    Carbon tissue is much "stronger" (as in "strong man") and thicker, than gum-bichromate layer. I'll try to shrink paper in hot water. Just in case.
    Thanks.
    Use the Force, Luke!

  6. #6
    Dave Wooten's Avatar
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    Yupo

    get it at the art store-for tissue
    fix out rc paper for the image

    See Sandy King's presentation on the Alternative Process site.
    [FONT="Arial Black"][/FONT]

  7. #7
    q_x
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    Dave, I live in Poland an I'm getting *tired* with it. We have some synthetic papers, but no heavyweight affordable option. Buying glass or white plastic (2mm thick PVC) sheets can be cheaper solution in Poland. But I'm not experienced enough to know if such water-resistant surface, flat (glass) or with delicate grain (PVC) be good as a carbon tissue support material. So here is the next question. AFAIK PVC cannot be heated over 60-70C.
    This might be a good way for me
    Thanks
    Use the Force, Luke!

  8. #8
    Dave Wooten's Avatar
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    www.yupo.com I think they have distribution in Europe. They can be contacted at the mentioned website. We used this product at Sandy King's carbon class at the Photographers Formulary, it is the best.
    [FONT="Arial Black"][/FONT]

  9. #9
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    I have to second Dave's recommendation of Yupo. Sandy King introduced me to it and it does a fine job.

    I also see that you are using plain paper. It has a tendacy to curl, but curls less as you go up in weight. It also can curl less if you add a gelatin coating to the back of the paper.

    PE

  10. #10
    q_x
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    Thank you
    First of all - I've lied a little. There is a Yupo distributor in Poland (Papyrus, also in other parts of Europe). One, and only one. They will sell minimal quantity of 125 sheets of 1000x700 mm (not affordable for me).
    There is a little - but always - chance to get the Yupo in shop somewhere near. I'll ask tomorrow. What is the minimal g/m2 value for Yupo to use for carbon?
    If 2mm PVC "looking like white cardboard, acting like plexi" (supposly much more durable than yupo) will be the same price - what would you recommend? And can glass be used?
    Cheers and thanks again,
    Luke
    Use the Force, Luke!

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