Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 69,727   Posts: 1,515,134   Online: 1115
      
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Andrew O'Neill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Coquitlam, BC, Canada
    Posts
    586

    How Much Tween 20?

    I've got some 20% Tween 20 and I thought I'd give it a try to see if it makes any difference. How many drops should I use for an 8x10 print? Three? Four?

  2. #2
    Kerik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    California
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    1,465
    Images
    238
    What process and what paper? I never found much use for it myself. Some papers don't like it at all. I find adding a few drops of Everclear is more beneficial to smooth coatings and minimizing brush marks than all the other magic potions I've tried, and I think I've tried them all.
    Kerik Kouklis
    Platinum/Gum/Collodion
    www.kerik.com
    2014 Workshop Schedule Online

  3. #3
    Don12x20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Shooter
    ULarge Format
    Posts
    232
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew O'Neill View Post
    I've got some 20% Tween 20 and I thought I'd give it a try to see if it makes any difference. How many drops should I use for an 8x10 print? Three? Four?
    You don't say what paper you are using, and you don't say whether brush (magic brush?) or rod coated.

    I've used a drop for 7x17 and 12x20 prints on Platine using magic brush (3 or 4 inch) -- I've seen a substantial improvement in coating. However, it will sink in a lot faster than before. I've tried everclear and haven't seen a difference.

    For 8x10 - if I were you, I'd get a pipette and figure out a fraction of a drop -- about half would be appropriate for 8x10. measure how many drops in 1 ml and determine how many ml in a drop, now divide. (pipeting with pipette pumps is the ONLY way to do ULF negatives)

    I've seen improvement using Tween for Lana Aquarelle and Fabriano Aristico. Not needed for a lot of papers.

    Your mileage may vary --- try it and see.

  4. #4
    Andrew O'Neill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Coquitlam, BC, Canada
    Posts
    586
    Rising Stonehendge and Lana Aquarelle. Both puddle-pushed coated. Making Kallitypes.
    I tried 4 drops on Aquarelle last night and it looked okay. I'll try it without tween to compare. Will try Stonehenge tonight. I've been using Stonehenge for the past two years with no Tween and quite pleased. Just thought I'd see if Tween makes any difference...Aquarelle is a nice paper, (more substantial and less tooth) but I think I prefer Stonehenge's "whiteness".

    I did appreciate how the sensitizer seemed to glide on with the addition of Tween.
    Last edited by Andrew O'Neill; 05-12-2009 at 05:01 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #5
    Andrew O'Neill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Coquitlam, BC, Canada
    Posts
    586
    Don, wouldn't it be easier to just dilute the Tween say with 1 drop to 1 drop (and more if needed) of distilled water?
    Another thing I found out was that Tween needs to be mixed into the sensitizer thoroughly before coating the paper.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Texas
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,576
    Images
    27
    Like Kerik said, it depends on the paper. I use it for some papers and not for others 1 drop for 8x10 for palladium prints. BUT - also use 1 drop of Everclear (190 prf - which is not available everywhere) and must say for smoothing out my coating it made a big difference. I use both with Fabriano Artistico Extra White (that is pre treated ahead of time with Oxalic acid).

    When using tween be sure to notice if it starts to grow anything - which it will sooner or later. Think the last bottle lasted me about 4-5 years before it became some strange blob. As with most of what we do with alt process find what works for you - what works for some does not seem to work for others (and darn if I know how or why?)
    Mike C

    Rambles

  7. #7
    Kerik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    California
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    1,465
    Images
    238
    Mike, you are so right. It's very paper dependent and papers change all too often. BTW, you can use 151 Everclear if 190 is not available in your area. Just use a little more... I typically use 2 to 4 drops of 190 in an 8x10 print. But, realize that the Everclear drops are much smaller than the Pd or ferric drops due to the much lower surface tension of the liquid (which is also why the everclear helps smooth the coating, in my experience).
    Kerik Kouklis
    Platinum/Gum/Collodion
    www.kerik.com
    2014 Workshop Schedule Online

  8. #8
    Don12x20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Shooter
    ULarge Format
    Posts
    232
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew O'Neill View Post
    Don, wouldn't it be easier to just dilute the Tween say with 1 drop to 1 drop (and more if needed) of distilled water?
    Another thing I found out was that Tween needs to be mixed into the sensitizer thoroughly before coating the paper.
    You do what you need to do.
    With small print sizes like 4x5 and 8x10, drops are easier. It just adds a wee bit to the drying time

    The Tween I've got doesn't seem to stay separated. A quick swirl in the shot glass coupled with magic brush does the trick

    you'll notice two effects -- first, it will coat a lot faster. You'll brush a lot less. This is especially true with Platine. Second, after development, you'll see more even tones.

  9. #9
    Don12x20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Shooter
    ULarge Format
    Posts
    232
    Quote Originally Posted by photomc View Post

    When using tween be sure to notice if it starts to grow anything - which it will sooner or later. Think the last bottle lasted me about 4-5 years before it became some strange blob.
    An advantage for everclear....

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Texas
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,576
    Images
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Don12x20 View Post
    The Tween I've got doesn't seem to stay separated. A quick swirl in the shot glass coupled with magic brush does the trick

    you'll notice two effects -- first, it will coat a lot faster. You'll brush a lot less. This is especially true with Platine. Second, after development, you'll see more even tones.
    Don, Exactly what I have found, from quick swirl to nice even coating.

    BTW Kerik learned the Everclear trick from you by way of Matt, so Thanks! to you and Matt. One of the best tips for coating I have learned. The other was 'there are no magic bullets' what works for one paper may not work on another and most important for alt printers is "papers change" so buy as much of a lot as you can, it may not be the same next time.
    Mike C

    Rambles



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin