Why hybrid?

[nsurit]

Any change will come from dialog with Sean and discussion on this site, rather from "yelling" at offenders for past or current misdeeds. Assuming what you say is accurate, and I have no reason to doubt it, all APUGers are being adversely affect by the actions of a few. I would like to see the "Gray Area" be re-opened. In my opinion the hybrid.com site has not been a particularly successful experiment. Bill Barber

[Sirius Glass]

Bill,

You have not said anything that was not said in the discussions leading up to the decision separating analog from digital. Go back and read the discussions and the history leading up to the decision.

Before the decision, we would regularly have to have analog versus digital wars started by trolls. The monitors had more than a full time job with that alone. Since the separation the wars have ended.

You complain that HybridPhoto does not get enough traffic. Why not expend your eloquence posting more frequently their and spreading the word about HybridPhoto to other websites.

Steve

[SuzanneR]

Sean, I think, always regretted adding the gray area to this site, and to that end felt the Hyrbid site as a stand alone would better serve those using a hybrid workflow. APUG is at its best when it stays on its focus, and the most logical line to draw is keeping the topic purely about analog processes. I'd agree there is some great work being made with a hybrid workflow that we don't see here. If I want to see it, though, I know where to look.

[bdial]

Sometimes the hybrid-analog separation is awkward, everyone recognizes that. I agree with others here that the rigid line is appropriate for the site in general. However, there is a hybird area completely within APUG, which is the Hybrid social group started by gr82bart. Any sort of hybrid discussion you like is permitted there.

[markbarendt]

Bill,

Are you lobbying McDonalds to offer take-out pizza too?

APUG is a business that has a successful product offering, analog only all the time.

If there were a big market for what you were asking for hybridphoto.com would be a rocking place too.

I don't think I would want to live in a world where slavery was the normal, where women didn't have the right to vote . . . These were tired old arguments that had been beat to death.

Your comparison tactic here is silly.

I'd say there is at least a small difference between championing human rights and discussing the finer points of a human pastime or vocation.

Truly here on APUG the big limitations are only the basic topic and the expectation of civility.

Similarly, if you went to a "Slow Food" group site they might get irked if you suggested recipes using a microwave or convection oven.

I am of the opinion that the folks who digitize a negative for printing their alternative process images have much to offer to folks on APUG ...

I am sure this is true Bill.

I'm also sure that, at least for me, once a scanner is part of the process I've lost interest.

In my view, a scanner is just a specialized digital camera.

Using a scanner to make a print introduces a disparate set of skills and tools and problems that have no bearing on analog photography.

[jnanian]

when the grey area was here
there were never ending flame wars.
EVEN with the "ignore forum" option activated
it didn't really matter because flames followed
people from place to place, and the nastiness polluted
apug in general. it's too bad people can't play nice ...

[Ken N]

Bill, I recon that between the two of us, if we wanted to wake up HybridPhoto we probably could. But the question is "do we want to?"

These forums are "communities". It is so frustrating that in the alt-process world that you can freely discuss 90% of everything involved, but should one person say "hey, I have this one negative with a scratch and I needed to digitize it for repair", but otherwise everything is still the alt-process the poor guy gets crucified for going off the reservation.

As a community, we discuss not only the technology and technique, but things related or sometime barely related to the technology and technique. This is one reason why the OM List is so blasted unique, because we'll as freely discuss our camera haulers as we do our cameras. Unfortunately, other online communities are rarely as free-form as the OM List.

I'm leary of mentioning the presence of my laptop in the darkroom. Talk about a bridge too far. Sometimes we are a bit "Amish" around here, but if that's the rules, I guess that's the rules.

[nsurit]

Hmm, I have no interest in an "either/or" war about analog vs digital and doubt that anyone who has an interest in alternative photographic processes whould be so inclined. Think about it.

It surprises me that a "troll" who took the side of digital in an analog vs digital war would find themselves in an alternative photographic processes discussion. Think about it.

Most, if not all, current literature about alternative processes talks about digital negatives. An example, for any who have an interest, would be Christopher James', "The Book of Alternative Photographic Processes." Considered by many to be the definitive text on the subject, it is worth a read by any serious student of the subject. Other means of producing negatives is also discussed, however I would not avoid reading it if I were an analog purist as there is much to be learned from the images and the techniques.

My observation about the amount of traffic on Hybridphoto site is just that, an observation, not to be confused with a complaint. My request to have an intelligent conversation about the merits of including hybrid photos in an alternative discussion group on APUG, was just that, a request. A request that was based on reason and logic. One that I thought would bring something to the table that was of value. Some have seen it as an opportunity to see the possibilities of such a change. Others have not.

Biill Barber

[Sirius Glass]

It surprises me that a "troll" who took the side of digital in an analog vs digital war would find themselves in an alternative photographic processes discussion. Think about it.

Well, I guess that you are surprised.

Now go back and look at the threads in the past on this subject. If almost everyone is telling you that it was tired and did not work, the problem is not the site but your unyielding position. Think about it.

Steve

[jd callow]

Unfortunately, in the sister site, there is disagreement of what is proper "hybrid". Some say digital camera, analog output, others say analog source, digital output. Frankly, it's all so childish, no matter how you slice it. At least we're not like that other all-digital site out there.

This is patently incorrect.

Hybrid has far more signal to noise than any list I know of (including APUG) and there is no debate on the site about what is hybrid (although we did discussed it early on), nor has there ever been any need for moderation.

Any change will come from dialog with Sean and discussion on this site, rather from "yelling" at offenders for past or current misdeeds. Assuming what you say is accurate, and I have no reason to doubt it, all APUGers are being adversely affect by the actions of a few. I would like to see the "Gray Area" be re-opened. In my opinion the hybrid.com site has not been a particularly successful experiment. Bill Barber

There will be no change in the site. There is always crossover from digital to traditional and the line has been drawn at the most easily identifiable area. If digi negs were allowed, then scanning would need to be included as well as the best output device and then there would need to be work flow and on and on.

APUG is a tradition photo site. Full stop. Nothing more or less. Its uniqueness and success is due to its narrow scope.