Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,821   Posts: 1,581,795   Online: 1049
      
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 28
  1. #1
    nick mulder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    1,204
    Images
    14

    PMK Pyro streaks in Jobo - Pyrocat-HD/Rollo solution ?

    Hello all,

    I've got myself a Jobo CPA2 with Lift and want to develop some 8x10" B&W for Pt/Pd.

    The last time I used Pyro was PMK in a Jobo rotary drum (2000 series) on a CPE2 - I got strips of higher stain density along the base side of the film where the ribs rest on the film... They were only barely visible on the neg, but the stain worked as expected and blocked the UV well enough to make dark 'ribs' in the highlights/smooth toned areas of my images - skies ruined/negs unusable (how to bleach off stain on one side of the neg only!?)...

    I remember reading in the Weese/Sullivan Pt/Pd book that Rollo Pyro goes someway into solving rotary processing issues - and I've also found the article on Pyrocat-HD at unblinking eye but neither specifically state the problem I am having... If I had to choose Pyrocat-HD sounds like the winner but am I just going to be getting it and discovering I have to go back to trays at midnight and the PMK may as well be used up anyway ??

    Is there anyway around the "take the drum off of the Jobo every 1-1/2 to 2 minutes and tilt it back and forth while rotating it by hand for about 15 seconds" solution ? or is it even a solution for what I am talking about ? Seems to me that the ribs via surface tension are just keeping a slightly higher amount of the developer for longer thereby a bit more activity (the stains were larger than the ribs but perfectly lined up) - hmmm, doesn't the stain adhere to silver (?) and there is no silver on the base ...




    I LOVE daylight processing (E6, what a hoot!) so I'm really keen to get pyro going with the Jobo - hoping to find someone who a. knows the issue I have and b. knows how to solve it

    Anyone ?

    Kind Regards,
    Nick
    Cleared the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Texas
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,576
    Images
    27
    Nick, had the same issue using a Beseler drum and roller motor. The fix I found was to increase the total volume in the tank. In my case, I was using 300 ml for 8x10 - changed it to a full liter (1000 ml) and the issue seemed to go away. The problem can occur when the developer begins to create a wave pattern (for lack of a better description) which seems to be disrupted by taking the tank of and moving side to side or in my case by altering the amount of liquid in the tank. Can't promise it will work, but considering the low cost of mixing Pyrocat it is worth a try.

    Good luck, let me know if this helps.
    Mike C

    Rambles

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Scotland
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    13
    Gordon Hutching recommends adding EDTA to the develper when using tubes, jobo etc.

    ''To add EDTA to the working solution, prepare a 1% solution by dissolving 10 grams of EDTA in 1000 cc of water. Then add 5 cc of the 1% solution to a liter of PMK just before developing the film'' 'Book of Pyro' G.H

    (EDTA-disodium) or (EDTA-tetrasodium) only!
    Last edited by kevcurry67; 02-15-2010 at 09:08 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    1,160
    Quote Originally Posted by nick mulder View Post
    Hello all,

    I've got myself a Jobo CPA2 with Lift and want to develop some 8x10" B&W for Pt/Pd.

    The last time I used Pyro was PMK in a Jobo rotary drum (2000 series) on a CPE2 - I got strips of higher stain density along the base side of the film where the ribs rest on the film... They were only barely visible on the neg, but the stain worked as expected and blocked the UV well enough to make dark 'ribs' in the highlights/smooth toned areas of my images - skies ruined/negs unusable (how to bleach off stain on one side of the neg only!?)...

    I remember reading in the Weese/Sullivan Pt/Pd book that Rollo Pyro goes someway into solving rotary processing issues - and I've also found the article on Pyrocat-HD at unblinking eye but neither specifically state the problem I am having... If I had to choose Pyrocat-HD sounds like the winner but am I just going to be getting it and discovering I have to go back to trays at midnight and the PMK may as well be used up anyway ??

    Is there anyway around the "take the drum off of the Jobo every 1-1/2 to 2 minutes and tilt it back and forth while rotating it by hand for about 15 seconds" solution ? or is it even a solution for what I am talking about ? Seems to me that the ribs via surface tension are just keeping a slightly higher amount of the developer for longer thereby a bit more activity (the stains were larger than the ribs but perfectly lined up) - hmmm, doesn't the stain adhere to silver (?) and there is no silver on the base ...




    I LOVE daylight processing (E6, what a hoot!) so I'm really keen to get pyro going with the Jobo - hoping to find someone who a. knows the issue I have and b. knows how to solve it

    Anyone ?

    Kind Regards,
    Nick
    Hello Nick: I have used both Rollo Pyro AND Pyrocat- HD in Jobo expert tanks, 8x10, using the CPP processor following the directions specified with the developers. Thus far, I have not had any marks or problems of any kind.

    Ed

  5. #5
    nick mulder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    1,204
    Images
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by kevcurry67 View Post
    Gordon Hutching recommends adding EDTA to the develper when using tubes, jobo etc.

    ''To add EDTA to the working solution, prepare a 1% solution by dissolving 10 grams of EDTA in 1000 cc of water. Then add 5 cc of the 1% solution to a liter of PMK just before developing the film'' 'Book of Pyro' G.H

    (EDTA-disodium) or (EDTA-tetrasodium) only!
    Thanks photomc I'll give it a test with the PMK...

    Kev, I'll give it a try but I'd like to know is the addition of EDTA specifically for this issue or just some wider aspect of rotary processing?
    Cleared the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

  6. #6
    jp80874's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Bath, OH 44210 USA
    Shooter
    ULarge Format
    Posts
    3,445
    Images
    6
    I think if you search history here and the LF Forum you will read many suggestions to do 8x10 in the Expert drums eliminating many problems. I have used Rollo Pyro for 4x5 and 8x10 in Expert drums on a CPP-2 since early 2004 with no problems. I have also used Rollo Pyro doing two 7x17 in 2850 drums without problems. When trying three sheets of 7x17 in a 3063 tank I got both the ridges you describe and uneven development. At $7 a sheet, one bad run was enough experimenting there.

    John Powers

  7. #7
    wildbill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Grand Rapids
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,476
    Images
    140
    Quote Originally Posted by nick mulder View Post
    Thanks photomc I'll give it a test with the PMK...

    Kev, I'll give it a try but I'd like to know is the addition of EDTA specifically for this issue or just some wider aspect of rotary processing?
    I use pmk +edta for all formats in my jobo. No streaks but I'm using expert drums (speed 4, 1000ml in 3005 & 500ml 3010 tanks) for sheet film. I believe the edta is recommended to reduce the effects of oxidization due to constant agitation (I don't feel like digging the book of pyro out). I don't think this will reduce your streaks.
    www.vinnywalsh.com

    I know what I want but I just don't know how to go about gettin' it.-Hendrix

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    4,813
    Images
    5
    Streaks and high b+f was reported in the very early days of PMK. The main issue is tht the developer oxidizes very rapidly. Solutions offered have been, 1) splitting the total volume of developer, discarding half of it at the mid-way point and adding the fresh, 2) adding a bit of sulfite to the working solution, or 3) adding some ascorbic acid to the working solution.

    All of these methods work, but Rollo Pyro and Pyrocat-HD and -MC work equally well without any of the above remedies and give results that are just as good as.

    The stain from the ridge marks is another issue, and is caused by agitation. It can be reduced or eliminated by, 1) using a much weaker dilution of the developer, with extended development time to compensate, or by 2) slowing down the rotation of the drum in RPM, or 3) by both 1 and 2.

    Sandy King

  9. #9
    nick mulder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    1,204
    Images
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    The stain from the ridge marks is another issue, and is caused by agitation. It can be reduced or eliminated by, 1) using a much weaker dilution of the developer, with extended development time to compensate, or by 2) slowing down the rotation of the drum in RPM, or 3) by both 1 and 2.

    Sandy King
    I'm chasing the perfect Pt/Pd neg, which I've now got in trays and PMK (usually no contrast control required in printing, just #1 and #3 and away I go... or just the smallest bit low con so I have a bit of choice with some subjects and can use very dilute NA2).

    I can hear the 'if it aint broke' - its just that to tray develop I need to do this nights - the light proofing is hard work with the sun out and I'm working most nights anyway...

    Weaker developer - so using EDTA might work in a round about way against the ridge mark issue ? I think I'm going to get some Pyrocat-HD and start again as lower strength dev and less agitation sounds like it'll work against my PMK process which involves a push.

    Do I still do the shake it the other way trick or is that just for the "hot streaks in 7x17" (unblinking eye) ?

    John - expert drums on ebay are more expensive alone that my complete kit was here, and then there is the pump too - I'm not sure if I need one, as if you're getting good results with 7x17 in 2000 series and then rib streaks in a 3063

    Maybe I shouldn't worry as I'm shooting a squarer formats anyway - what is it with the 7x17" ? I did note the effect was pretty much masked by busy scenes and only showed up in areas like sky, maybe its the general subject choice of 7x17" users that lend something to it being noticed more and its happening more than other people realize in other formats/subjects but is hidden in the detail or shadows ?
    Cleared the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Texas
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,576
    Images
    27
    Nick, one more observation to share with you...I did not find the "surge line" or area of density until I started to print some negatives (as you mentioned more so with sky), but after I went back and checked both 7x11 and 8x10 negatives I did notice on both...just harder to see on some negatives, but it is there. Because I must use a Beseler 11x14 drum for the 7x11, I caught it there first - with 8x10 negatives I use both 8x10 drums for single sheets and 11x14 drums for multiple. So be sure to wait until you print before you know for sure. I am using the Formulary P-Cat HD for my processing (ready mix in glycol since my darkroom time comes sort of infrequent these days).
    Mike C

    Rambles

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin