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  1. #11

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    Hi Marco,

    Yes, I have Mike Ware's book actually.

    I don't think both processes (iron gall ink compounding and toning cyanotype with tannic acid) produce exactly the same pigment "and residuals"...

    Regards,
    Loris.

  2. #12
    Nicholas Lindan's Avatar
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    Making ink from iron salts and oak galls was known to the Greeks and parchments written with the ink have survived for 2,000 years. Iron gall ink has the advantage over India ink in that it is permanent as the iron/phenol compound binds to protean and cellulose. It takes a while for ink to form a permanent bond and so it is possible to wash out mistakes if they are caught early enough.

    Pyrogallol's well known action on iron salts was what suggested it as a developer for silver salts. It was first used as an agent to darken and make salt prints more permanent but it was found to develop a latent image - silver salt photography up to that point was a 'printing out' process.

    Problems with iron gall ink are common in the 1800's in the US. School teachers were expected to make up ink as part of their duties, however the instructions they were given for making ink were faulty and they passed this knowledge on to their pupils.

    My testing with tannic acid toned cyanotypes indicates they are quite fade free: I made a print in the spring, nailed it to the deck railing where it got full sun all day and by the time the first snow started to fall the print showed no signs of fading .
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  3. #13
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Lindan View Post
    My testing with tannic acid toned cyanotypes indicates they are quite fade free: I made a print in the spring, nailed it to the deck railing where it got full sun all day and by the time the first snow started to fall the print showed no signs of fading .
    Hi Nicholas and also Loris,

    Thanks for the extra info. I appreciate it. Loris, I agree with you that the chemical composition of the formed pigment is not necessarily exactly the same, and clearly any by-products and left over chemical is more damaging and problematic in iron gall ink, but I do think they are very closely related... That is exactly why I found it so interesting. I love these synergies.

    As for the fading: I already wrote, based on documentation links I posted, that iron gall ink, and the ferrogallatanate pigment in it, are very light fast. The possible fading is with a normal cyanotype, not with the toned one.
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  4. #14
    Ole
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    I thought I had an example od a teatoned unbleached cyanotype here, which showd deep "steel black" shadows and delicate pinkk highlights. but I don't, which I will remedy as soon as I can find the picture..
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
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  5. #15
    Schlapp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco B View Post
    By the way, if you do know an example image on the internet of such a pink tone cyanotype, I would love to see it! Please post a link here in the thread if you can!
    Not sure how you link to gallery but I have the "vase" snap in pink cyanotype.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlapp View Post
    Not sure how you link to gallery but I have the "vase" snap in pink cyanotype.
    Simply right click on the image "Copy image location" (at least in Firefox), and paste that in a thread post using the "Insert Image" button of the APUG text editor:

    I guess you meant this one, indeed a surprising and delicate pink color of the toning. Really nice to see this and learn of the possibilities of this kind of toning on cyanotypes:



    Marco
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    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  7. #17

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    even i m intrested in seeing such a print

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlapp View Post
    I don't believe non-bleached tea-toned cyanotypes are dyed since if you tone with white tea which has no effect on the paper, the tone of the blue does change - as it does also with green tea. If you print a light cyanotype which almost washes away then chuck it in green tea you can get a lovely delicate pink tone.
    I do hope I am not missing your point.
    I have way too many projects going on and have been resisting the cyanotype temptation but this post is going to push me over the edge.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by NedL View Post
    I have way too many projects going on and have been resisting the cyanotype temptation but this post is going to push me over the edge.
    Me too. Until recently I was making contact prints on a proofing frame with a one piece back. Lack of a frame with a split back was the only thing holding me back, now I have an antique printing frame made by the Seneca camera company with a split back, so I have no more excuses not to try cyanotype.
    Happiness is a load of bulk chemicals, a handful of recipes, a brick of film and a box of paper. - desertrat

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