Very good suggestion!
I had forgotten the color balance of the TV. I had in the back of my mind that color TV was balanced more blue than film daylight but I was not sure of myself. I have forgotten the reasons, but I should have remembered that. I did little work with TV applications and so this type of information is largely "filed away".
Hey, thanks guys. JOSarff, that's great to know to color balance of a TV. What type of filter would be recommended? 85, 81, yellow?
When looking thru the slides it's not as much of a rich blue as the scan would suggest; more like looking thru an 80c filter or something. I was thinking that maybe I've made a tungsten balanced reseau!
As for the PS/digital recommendations, shame on you! This is APUG!
I'll try to get it more gray the old fashioned way.
PE, thanks for the book suggestion; I'm do for a library run and I'll definitely look for it when I'm there.
Again, thanks for the support everyone, you'll be the first to know what happens next.
Originally Posted by holmburgers
It's exactly what you are doing: get a raster-image on film.
Only easier. And better.
(truth be told, I don't even have photoshop)
As I said, we rebalanced the monitor, but a weak to medium yellow should help. Ideally, a color temperature meter would give you the filter you would need. without one, try a cc10y, cc15y, cc20y etc. until you get a neutral film image.
I've attached wat is called a chip chart that you could try to use. It would help you plot the curve of the film image, and give you an idea of where you are in color balance.
There is no such thing as taking too much time, because your soul is in that picture. -Ruth Bernhard
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Yeah, I think I'm going to try to grab an old Gossen Sixticolor. Very reasonable prices on eBay (there, I SAID IT, EBAY!!! )
Last night I had an epiphany and I have seen the light! (le lumière?!)
Basically, as was suggested by htmlguru, a computer monitor is indeed the way to go. There are many reasons...
For one, an SDTV has a resolution of 640x480 whereas a computer monitor is 1280x1024. That's twice the resolution!
Furthermore, TV has an aspect ratio 4:3 whereas 4x5" film is well, 5:4. A monitor is also 5:4... so it's a perfect fit!
Also, my computer monitor is flat (however, so was the TV I used in the initial reseau shots).
And lastly, I experimented with changing the color balance and it's as easy as opening up the old-school 'Windows Paint' program and defining a custom color. If you pick light yellow and then shift the white/black fader you can actually see the RGB elements shifting in balance (under loupe of course). Once you find the right color, save it and open it in a program that allows for a full screen preview.
Voila! A perfect, fully customizable signal generator.
RGB color screen processes
It seems as if my “early color” fever has come back after years in remission and after stumbling across this forum I decided to join up and share a few experiences I had. Let me start off by saying that I’m a completely untrained amateur and cannot begin to discuss intelligently such things as “reciprocity failure” and the like.
That being said, about 20 years ago I was able to obtain a 5x7 Finlay Color screen plate, which was a reusable reseau of color gridlines finely drawn on a glass plate. Using a diamond glass cutter I was able to snap the plate off in 2 useable parts (yes, that took nerves of steel !). I placed the larger portion in a 4x5 film holder to take single shots with my Speed Graphic and I taped the smaller piece into an old Voigtlander 6x9 roll film camera. Performing reversal development on the black and white film I was using and realigning the images behind the plate provided some very good results. The colors were indeed reminiscent of Autochrome though, since the gridlines were evenly drawn, the results did not have quite the same random pointilistic effect.
Well, I sold the Finlay plates a long time ago and don’t expect to ever find one again. However I’ve had another idea recently and having read your efforts to create a reseau by photographing a color monitor I thought I might pass it on.
Have you considered opening up an old color LCD appliance and isolating the color reseau so you can use it directly in your camera ? I recently started work along this line. I bought a novelty digital photo key fob at the local drugstore for about $9 and carefully dissected it. By carefully separating the glass “sandwich” and washing off the LC “goo” I was able to isolate the color reseau which, upon examination, is very reminiscent of the Finlay Plate, even in terms of density. I did the same with an old cell phone I’m no longer using.
Owing to the size of the screens in those appliances I came out with something which might be useable for say, 35mm. I haven’t bothered shooting through them yet as I figure at that size, if I were to want to enlarge or project the images, I’d end up with something resembling a photo composed of Legos… But I think the principle is there… If I decide to continue along these lines I might attempt to do the same with an old laptop computer or digital picture frame… Which would allow for use once again in 4x5 or 6x9… Just thought I’d throw that one out there. Anyone have any thoughts on this ?
Howdy Banjopete and welcome!
I had not thought of this, and now I'm most certainly thinking about this! Basically, I didn't realize that the screen (aperture plate) was inherently colored in the additive primaries. I've incorrectly assumed that it was colorless until the phosphorence from the the CRT tube (or LCD, plasma, etc.) acted upon it.
This would be an excellent method in terms of purity of screen and colors, I would assume. Disadvantages I can see would be the difficulty of getting this screen in the first place, the lack of ability to control the color balance and the fact that the screens could not be easily replicated without more monitors to cannibalize (not that this wouldn't be an enjoyable part of the project!).
I'm looking at the monitor I'm using right now, thinking how great it would look in contact with a piece of 8x10" film..... prrr.....
If you attempt this, let us know what kind of results you get and in the meantime I'll start looking at monitors in a new light. Seriously, thanks for the brain power!
I'm starting to wonder what kind of results these TV-made screens will produce. Will they make images that look like they're on a TV? I would have to say that this would be a welcome outcome to a certain extent.
Glad you enjoyed that and I've enjoyed reading the work you've put in as well ! I think I've seen this Thomas Edison quote around here somewhere: "To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk".
As I said, no huge progress on the matter yet but the potential is there... I will dig around my messy apartment. I think I dropped the little screen from the LCD key chain behind a piece of furniture somewhere but would be happy to mail it to you for examination if I can get my hands on it. I think you trained folks might be able to run with the idea better than I, so I'm happy to share.
The most difficult part about isolating the reaseau that I encountered was the fact that the glass layers are "welded" together along their edges. Since the work I was doing was just a test I just sort of chipped away at the weld until I was able to separate the layers with a razor blade. I suspect a better job could be done with a diamond glass finishing file.
Once you've gotten a grid in a decent size wouldn't you be able to perhaps duplicate it and control color balance etc. by contact exposure on color slide film ? When I had the Finlay Plate I just reused it over and over and lined the pictures up individually for viewing. I suspect the grids from LCD appliances would be of approximately the same resolution, perhaps even better. The Finlay Grid, fine as it was, was not nearly so fine as the Autochrome starch grains.