Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,571   Posts: 1,545,632   Online: 974
      
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20
  1. #1
    Richard Boutwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    473
    Images
    91

    Platine and Fabriano Artistico Sharpness Issues

    I was comparing prints of the same negative made on Arches Platine and Fabriano Artistico Extra White, and, in addition to greater d-max, Platine was somewhat sharper and cleaner in the shadow separation. I imagine that the increased sharpness would be due to the smoother surface of Platine, and a wondering if there is anything I could do to Atristico (post-acidification) to make it smoother. For what it's worth, I am using the back side of the Artistico because it has a more random texture than the side with the water mark.

    Does anyone know what Platine in sized with that gives it a smoother, denser surface?

    I am going to try to put a sheet of damp Fabriano in the drymount press prior to coating to see if that helps any. I love Platine, but the price per sheet was starting to take its toll on my wallet, and am now trying to make the Fabriano work for me.
    Last edited by Richard Boutwell; 07-15-2010 at 11:42 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    ". . . photographing as a two-way act of respect. Respect for the medium and letting it do what it does best- describe. And respect for the subject in describing it as it is. A photograph must be responsible to both."-- Garry Winogrand

    "Art is just a Series of Natural Gestures."-- John Marin

    My Platinum Printing Blog

    My WEBSITE

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Istanbul, Turkey
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    650
    Richard, you have to pre-acidify Artistico, in order to make it work (well) with iron processes...

  3. #3
    Richard Boutwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    473
    Images
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by Loris Medici View Post
    Richard, you have to pre-acidify Artistico, in order to make it work (well) with iron processes...
    I have acidified the fabriano with oxalic acid (and then I read your post somewhere about how the resulting neutralized agent becomes insoluble in water). I used it back in October with great success, and then ran out of paper and chemistry. I acidified now with new paper and chemistry, and am finding it is just not as good as Platine.

    I am experimenting with double coating platine right now. The first coat of ferric oxalate, palladium, and NA2 is diluted to 50% with distilled water. Once that is dry I am doing a second coat with a 100% ferric oxalatealladium solution. The first try clearing right now, but looks really great wet (dont' they always . . . ).

    I will throw up some scans of the sharpness issues as soon as I can.
    Last edited by Richard Boutwell; 07-16-2010 at 01:48 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    ". . . photographing as a two-way act of respect. Respect for the medium and letting it do what it does best- describe. And respect for the subject in describing it as it is. A photograph must be responsible to both."-- Garry Winogrand

    "Art is just a Series of Natural Gestures."-- John Marin

    My Platinum Printing Blog

    My WEBSITE

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Istanbul, Turkey
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    650
    Ok, your statement "post-acidification" was a typo then...

    I remember reading about people needing longer and/or stronger soaks to make Artistico work, probably the paper changed a little bit and you need to adjust your workflow...

    Good luck!

  5. #5
    Richard Boutwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    473
    Images
    91
    Oh, what I meant was: after the paper is acidified and air-dried it has more texture than when it comes from the factory. I was hoping there was something that could be done after clearing the buffer that would make it smoother/denser and ultimately sharper.
    ". . . photographing as a two-way act of respect. Respect for the medium and letting it do what it does best- describe. And respect for the subject in describing it as it is. A photograph must be responsible to both."-- Garry Winogrand

    "Art is just a Series of Natural Gestures."-- John Marin

    My Platinum Printing Blog

    My WEBSITE

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Istanbul, Turkey
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    650
    I see, I don't think it's solely due the acidification. Just use plain water to see, and you'll most probably notice a similar change in surface qualities... (IME, all papers somehow change after wet cycle.) OTOH, if oxalic acid acidification does something different and/or more pronounced to the surface, then you already know my stance...

    Regards,
    Loris.

  7. #7
    Marco B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,983
    Images
    169
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Boutwell View Post
    Oh, what I meant was: after the paper is acidified and air-dried it has more texture than when it comes from the factory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Loris Medici View Post
    I see, I don't think it's solely due the acidification. Just use plain water to see, and you'll most probably notice a similar change in surface qualities... (IME, all papers somehow change after wet cycle.)
    I agree with Loris, the change in paper structure is probably only related to soaking it, not the acidification... I have had similar experience with liquid emulsion and different papers. The paper fibres swell during soaking, and just don't dry as flat again. Probably during manufacturing, some type of pressure is used to create the smooth texture of the manufactured paper. Don't they call it "heat" or "cold" pressed papers?
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    fairfield county, Ct.
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    1,817
    Images
    24

    Paper

    Richard- I have been using most of the papers available but like the Lanaaquarelle in Ammonium /citrate dev...been using the palladium process
    not the na2....paper must be treated also but they are very sharp to my eye
    Best, Peter
    website down for maintenance!

  9. #9
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Washington DC
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    8,367
    Blog Entries
    51
    Images
    435
    I've been a huge devotee of the Bergger COT320, which seems to be about the most viceless pt/pd paper. You pay accordingly, but there's no need to double-coat or acidify. I think part of your problem is that you're using the backside of the paper. You may not like the pattern of the front, but it is pressed and rolled to give a tighter texture even when wet.

  10. #10
    Whiteymorange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Boston area
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,290
    Images
    26
    The surface of the paper you choose makes a difference. As has been said, the paper is rolled to get a certain texture, which will definitely affect the outcome of shadow detail. You might try drying the paper, after you acidify it, in contact with a very smooth sheet of metal, such as a ferrotype plate. One of the print dryers that uses a heated metal patten and a cloth to keep the paper in contact with it would work. This flattens the surface fibers and is an old trick of those who make paper by hand to get something that can be more easily used as writing paper.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin