paper shrinking problem, don't know what to do any more ...

[Hexavalent]

Hi all,

I tried pre-soaking the paper in different manners, tried pre-soaking and drying twice before the first coat, tryed let it soak a full day, no avail.

Are you pre-soaking in hot water? For troublesome papers I pre-shrink twice, using hot (130 F) water, letting the paper sit for 1/2 hour, dry, repeat, then size. After that, I rarely see any shrinkage problems.

-Ian

[Xandros]

You're right, I'm coating the paper with alum-hardened gelatin after pre-shrinking.

I only print with black pigment.

Ian, yes I let it 1 hour in hot water, fully dry, 1 hour in hot water, dry, size, dry, coat, ...
What paper are you using ?

Loris, first you said

"Wait a little longer in the first layers (to let the paper dry to the touch), wait less (still has to be dry to the touch, though...) with the subsequent layers."

and now

"wait 10-15 for the first layers, then more for the next ones..."

Isn't it the contrary of the first statement ? or did I miss something.

I don't know, I am thinking of trying a first gum/dichromate layer only without any pigment, the paper will be less pure white after that but maybe it will help, what do you think ?

[Loris Medici]

Oops! Yes, I wrote it in reverse; the first one is true... E.g. Wait 30mins for first layers, 15mins for subsequent ones. Sorry for the confusion...

[Hexavalent]

Xandros, I managed to salvage some otherwise useless Arches Aquarelle by double-shrinking. When I'm feeling rich, I use 300 lb. Canson (it's almost cardboard).

I harden my gelatin sizing with formalin or glutaraldehyde - it's sturdier than alum hardening, which is prone to swelling. For cheaper papers like Cotman, I sometimes size twice, first with a very dilute mixture .5 - 1% gelatin to 'lock' the paper fibres, and then, after drying, size again with 3% to provide a 'top-coat'.

-Ian

[Colin Graham]

Usless Arches Aquarelle? Maybe it's a climate thing, but the 140 lb works perfectly here in western Washington, at least as stable as Fabriano EW with a single shrinking.

[Hexavalent]

Usless Arches Aquarelle? Maybe it's a climate thing, but the 140 lb works perfectly here in western Washington, at least as stable as Fabriano EW with a single shrinking.

I should have noted: "Useless" as it was bad batch, either flawed in manufacturing, or in storage - uneven wetting, curl etc.,
Turns out there was a good reason for it being on sale cheap.

-Ian

[Xandros]

Thanks for the precision Loris

Ian, I use cold pressed 140lb Lanaquarelle watercolor paper for now. The gelatin sizing formula I use (found somewhere) is about 4-5% gelatin, 10% alum. I don't have any formalin or glutaraldehyde here unfortunately, so maybe I should try two coats ?

the ambient humidity seems to be meaningful indeed. i'm performing some size measurements with a test paper strip right now ...

[Loris Medici]

In any case, feel free to bend the figures, OK?

Thanks for the precision Loris

[PVia]

Xandros, how are you registering your prints? Just curious...

Here, I use Fabriano EW, both hot and soft press and have no problems with small sizes (up to 8x10) without preshrinking or sizing. I've been able to do the same for a 9x14 print as well - see this link:http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapian...7624234247830/

Rives BFK shrinks a lot more than the Fabriano, but I rarely soak any piece longer than 5 minutes in lukewarm water. Humidity is usually 40% and below here, and temps are 70-95 degrees F.

Try some Fabriano, without shrinking and without sizing...you may be pleasantly surprised. I should mention that I use 1 gram of tube pigment to 9ml of gum, and then use that mixture 1:1 with the dichromate. I register with pushpins.

[Xandros]

I register with pushpins.

BFK is unusable to me, shrinks way too much. Im not sure I have that Fabriano EW here, not all papers in the world are available unfortunately

Is it Artistico EW 140lb (300g/m) ?

I'm making some tests right now with a strip of paper, and after 2 times 1hour soaking in hot water + drying, the lanaquarelle paper didn't move at all. i'm proceeding to first gum coat now.