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  1. #21
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Allen ,

    Thank you for enlightment , that was what ever I was thinking , I came there from Dutch painting and I was right. I read lots of posts about Kerik , I will rush and look to every photographer you indicated.

    Marco , wow what a anger , relax !

    Thank you for great information. I will try to visit Dutch museums when I grow up

  2. #22
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    Marco , wow what a anger , relax !

    Thank you for great information. I will try to visit Dutch museums when I grow up
    Don't worry, I was only half serious! That is why I added so much smilies

    It is just fun to raise some of these topics... But I am sure Q.G. gets the irony and joking in it...
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    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

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  3. #23
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    hahaha we say in Turkey , going to fire with gasoline pump

  4. #24
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    hahaha we say in Turkey , going to fire with gasoline pump
    Yes, something like that...
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  5. #25
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q.G. View Post
    But what if someone somewhere sometime found a bit of it, just like you did with that Juncus? Would that be enough for the old masters? Or van Gogh's ink? Would you fiding that Juncus on Vlieland mean that it's in every garden center for us all to get?
    Who said it needed to be in every garden centre for us all to get if one person could find it?

    There has been only one Van Gogh and one Rembrandt

    And one real "Sinterklaas"! (the rest are fakes, you know )
    Last edited by Marco B; 10-27-2010 at 05:15 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco B View Post
    Who said it needed to be in every garden centre for us all to get if one person could find it?
    In amounts large enough for all of us? For all those old masters' paintings?
    Do think this through, Marco...


    But that's all academic.
    There was no amber in those paintings.
    And you can't find amber at the Dutch coast.

  7. #27
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q.G. View Post
    But that's all academic.
    There was no amber in those paintings.
    And you can't find amber at the Dutch coast.
    I fully agree, it was umber, not amber, in those paintings...
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  8. #28
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Fun thread, but as said earlier Amber could have been used in the varnish. After all, Amber in its fresh state is related to pine resin, sap or turpentine. The terms for Amber and Ambergis were the same until about 1400 and references to that period or earlier are often ambiguous.

    In any case, fresh amber is sap and dry sap is amber in simple terms. Dissolving Amber in a solvent will create a varnish. Originally, Amber was called ηλεκτρον (electron) and the terms were gradually merged for both Ambergis and Amber calling them both Amber, and then the terms diverged as I note above.

    I believe that both Umber and Amber may have been used in these earlier paintings, but for different purposes.

    PE

  9. #29
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    In any case, fresh amber is sap and dry sap is amber in simple terms. Dissolving Amber in a solvent will create a varnish. Originally, Amber was called ηλεκτρον (electron) and the terms were gradually merged for both Ambergis and Amber calling them both Amber, and then the terms diverged as I note above.
    PE, you are right that fresh pine resin is still used as a painting varnish, it is the stuff I called "Damar". However, I think - in general - the term "Amber" is today only used for the more or less "fossilized" hardened variant, the ones used as gem stones, and known to sometimes contain tens of millions of years old fossils of insects etc. Like those famous pictures of amber with millions of years old mosquitoes.

    I don't think the term "amber" is in general use for fresh dried pine resin today, where again the term "resin" or "damar" are more common and avoid the confusion with the "fossilized" variant.
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco B View Post
    PE, you are right that fresh pine resin is still used as a painting varnish, it is the stuff I called "Damar". However, I think - in general - the term "Amber" is today only used for the more or less "fossilized" hardened variant, the ones used as gem stones, and known to sometimes contain tens of millions of years old fossils of insects etc. Like those famous pictures of amber with millions of years old mosquitoes.

    I don't think the term "amber" is in general use for fresh dried pine resin today, where again the term "resin" or "damar" are more common and avoid the confusion with the "fossilized" variant.
    You're quite right, Marco.

    But then, everybody lies, right?

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