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  1. #101
    holmburgers's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, a classic and "hard to find" book is David Doubly's book on Dye-Transfer. I say "hard to find" sarcastically, because one sold on eBay recently for over $100. However, I emailed with Mr. Doubly a few months earlier and he would've sent me a new one for $40.

    HAH!

    I think it's a good idea to start with a black dye and get the monochrome thing down. That's probably a route I haven't been considering strongly enough. However, I might start with a magenta or cyan just because the characteristics might change drastically when you decide to switch. But then again, you'd know how to deal with it by then, wouldn't you?
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  2. #102

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    Goodness! That is a bit steep for me! I found a table of contents here and in all honesty, it is probably worth the ebay price if it is as indepth as it sounds, but I just don't have the funds right now to give :P

    In the meantime, these reads might be of use. In no way would they be as extensive as David Doubley's work, but it does provide some good breadth. They were scanned out of the British Journal of Photography Almanac 1952. I hope these are of use, and I appologise if I'm doing an information dump!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Printing process 1.jpg   Printing process 2.jpg   Printing process 3.jpg   Printing process 4.jpg   Printing process 5.jpg  

    Printing process 6.jpg   Printing process 7.jpg   Printing process 8.jpg   Printing process 9.jpg  
    Last edited by Boggy1; 01-27-2011 at 04:57 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #103
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    The Duxochrome process in those articles is a Kodachrome type process done by the user. I have described it before. It is described fully in the book by Leadly and Stegmeyer on color printing. It is a slim volume about 4x5" in size and about 50 pages long, hardcover.

    Kodak has a largish book (60 some pages) with illustrations and examples on making dye transfer prints, as well as a similar book on masking, the process that must be used before making the dye transfer matrices. I have both of those in the larger book, the Kodak Color Handbook, Methods, Processes and Techniques.

    PE

  4. #104

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    There is also a detailed description of the the Dye Transfer Process and an outline of the steps in the loose leaf version of the Photo Lab Index. Bob Pace also put out a combined instruction book and VHS tape walks you through the process in detail.

    Gord

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    The Duxochrome process in those articles is a Kodachrome type process done by the user. I have described it before. It is described fully in the book by Leadly and Stegmeyer on color printing. It is a slim volume about 4x5" in size and about 50 pages long, hardcover.

    Kodak has a largish book (60 some pages) with illustrations and examples on making dye transfer prints, as well as a similar book on masking, the process that must be used before making the dye transfer matrices. I have both of those in the larger book, the Kodak Color Handbook, Methods, Processes and Techniques.

    PE
    I would like to amend this with thanks to AgX. I misread or misunderstood the Duxochrome (Duxochrom in German). It is not a Kodachrome type process. It is similar to that of Leadly and Stegmeyer and I misled myself into making incorrect comparisons as I read.

    Duxochrome is not a Kodachrome type process. Sorry. So far then, the only description is in Leadly and Stegmeyer.

    I am sorry for the error.

    PE

  6. #106
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    If one were to take a color carbon print, either an old 50's carbro or a modern Ultrastable print, and hold it up to a window, how transparent would it be? A bit, none, completely? This of course is dismissing the base, which will undoubtedly be mostly opaque (paper).

    What I'd like to make is a kind of 'modern stained glass window' photograph. Dyed but transparent gelatin layers superimposed with CMY colors to create an incredible, transmission print.

    Carbon prints use pigments, which are fairly opaque as I understand it, so they are not as vivid and saturated as dye-transfers, which use dyes. But, there's a trade off as dyes are more fugitive than pigments.

    Now, this is what Ian (Hexavalent) has told me regarding dyes/pigments... "The problem with dyes instead of pigments, is that dyes are soluble, which is what enabled them to be 'imbibed' by the gelatin. Many of the modern pigments are actually dyes that have been mordanted, or laked to a metal to make them insoluble." I hope he doesn't mind me using his words!

    Anyways, the solution to problems usually lies in the past, and I'm now wanting to know more about stained-glass windows and how they were colored. Are they laked pigments, or dyes? Are they transparent enough to be used in a subtracive synthesis scheme? The appealing thing is that these colourants are proven to be very light fast, and a study of them could yield ideal pigments/dyes for color-carbon.

  7. #107
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    Question #1 : Luis Nadeau can tell you

    www.handprint.com has a mind-numbing amount of information regarding pigments both natural and synthetic.

    IIRC, 'real' stained glass was/is coloured with metals: gold, chromium, cobalt, etc. (cheaper stuff is simply coated with colourant).


    Duxochome was also known as "Colorstil" (sometimes with two L's) in the US
    - Ian

  8. #108
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    At one time, FB prints of any sort could be dipped in mild oil or glycerin and they became reasonably transparent. Then they could be put on a window for a very nice stained glass effect. But, papers do have a dmax limit of about 2.0 in reflection space which is about 1.2 by transmission. The conversion is not linear and so this method does not give "good" prints, just acceptable ones.

    At one time, Kodak made a half weight paper and one of its uses was just this. Making a pseudo transparency.

    PE

  9. #109

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    Gordrob, I'll certainly keep my eye out for those books and videos!

    Holmburgers, you could try to make a dye-transfer print matrix, but soak it in a mordant as well as the acid dyes. I guess that you would have to spend sometime however finding the appropriate dyes, since I'm not well read enough to know if you could use the same dyes that James Browning suggests*. You could then sandwich them together in glass. Of course, the developer might be staining, since the developer for relief prints contain pyro. That might ruin the effect somewhat.

    Photo Engineer, you mean like getting some greasy chicken from KFC on my homework turns the paper see-through?


    *http://www.dyetransfer.org/images/DyeTran.pdf
    and thanks to Photo Engineer for linking me this

  10. #110
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    Boggy;

    Yes, getting a FB print greasy makes it transparent, kind of like how they used to use oiled paper or parchment for windows back hundreds of years ago when glass was not easy to come by.

    However it works best with thin FB such as SW or HW and less well with DW. We had a version that was half weight and I have some samples of it here from way back when.

    PE



 

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