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  1. #201
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone's capital should diminish regardless of what questions or how many are asked.

    I should add that only Azo dyes can be properly used in the Dye Bleach process like Ciba/Ilfochrome. In fact, back in the day, it was called the Azo Dye Bleach Process. Many other dyes are destroyed outright by the pH of the bleach bath or they are not totally destroyed and can leave a stain or can re-generate after processing to the same or a new dye.

    PE

  2. #202
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    You could never be faulted for that PE, but not everyone I've encountered is so forthcoming with assistance, or so it seemed to me at the time I guess.
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  3. #203
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    SO I received a reply from the eBay seller with all the carbon materials. Indeed it was Robert Greene's material, left to this seller by his widow. He says that there are 2 or 3 institutions actively seeking funding to purchase the materials.

    Also, he says he's a dye-transfer printer.
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  4. #204
    mdm
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    I got mine from Modern Carbon Printing. I have used the colours recomended, to pour CMYK tissues which I have not printed yet, and just to mix coloured glop and to tint my black glop. Cant recommend paint tints enough, very easy and fun to work with. I am about to post a blue-green print made with cyan and yellow and have used magenta to get a mahogany tint, probably needs a touch of yellow too, but I have not printed it yet. They are easier to disperse than watercolour pigments even. Another option may be mixol or caltint. I have used mixol and its super nice but I am not shure if they have process colours.

    dry pigment=massive headache and wasted glop or LOTS of patience.

    David

  5. #205
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    I've never heard of mixol or caltint, but they look like they would work if you can find the right colors. I haven't found any literature that divulges the pigments used, but I haven't looked real hard yet.

    The 1 pint pigment samples I got (for free) from Lansco Colors are dry powders and although I haven' t used them, they seem like they'd disperse OK. But, that is yet to be seen I guess.
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  6. #206
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    Just wanted to point out this awesome PDF outlining the history of color processes. -> http://www.iml.unibas.ch/SKRIPTEN/Sc...hy_history.pdf
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  7. #207
    mdm
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    Thanks for that.

    David

  8. #208
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    http://sechtl-vosecek.ucw.cz/slides2.pdf

    Another very cool PDF that I stumbled upon. Shows many old color prints; Duxochrom (duxochrome), Pinatypie (pinatype), Carbro, prints from Autochromes, Agfacolor, 3-color gravure, and so on.
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  9. #209

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    Good to see some continued interest in this topic. You've also got Sandy King's forum on carbon printing,
    though most of the info there concentrates on monochrome. What I find so surpising, however, is the
    sheer traditionalism inhent to the mindset, and how folks will scrounge around for old materials. The fact
    is, much better potential process pigments are available today than back in the Golden Age of color
    carbon and carbro. I have a very good idea of how to go about this, but alas, am working with just too
    many media at the moment, and these experiments will have to await my retirement from my day job
    (not terribly far off, thank goodness).

  10. #210
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    I'm very interested in what you have in mind Drew, if you're willing to share of course.

    As for the traditionalism, I adhere to a certain degree of it for 2 reasons.

    1st is that the traditional processes are very simple; chemically & in concept. They are within the reach of any hobbyist with a home darkroom.

    2nd is double sided and relates to history. On one hand I think it's important to understand how people used to make color prints and to keep the knowledge and processes alive, if for no other reason than a type of living history.

    The other side of the coin is a concept that I'm quite interested in and trying to formalize/crystallize. It's the idea that we understand the past better if we can see ourselves through the same lens (mentioning the pun seems unncessary...haha). What I mean is, the bias with which people view old photographs. It's hard to look at an orthochromatic landscape photograph and not think that the earth looked drab, washed out, so dry, etc. But the reality is that the world looked just as beautiful, vivid and full of life as it does now... probably more so! Old autochromes give us a glimpse of this.

    So, by seeing a photograph of you, or your friends, or some crazy modern buildling through the same process that was used 100+ years ago, it allows us to make a mental link to the reality of the recording medium. A good example is the daguerreotype of Obama's inauguration by Jerry Spagnoli.

    It gives the old photograph more credit; the kind of respect they deserve. It reminds you that your grandma was probably a wild child in her day, and that your great grandpa probably had a great sense of humour when he wasn't sitting still for a 10 second exposure. It's the same exact thing with old recordings. Bix Beiderbecke or early Louis Armstrong recordings.... if we could hear those today in modern fidelity we'd be blown away by the originality, the spunk and excitement that those recordings hide within their scratchy grooves.

    Anyways, I'm interested in the history of the processes but not one iota in reproducing an old look for that sake alone. If I ever put a fruit basket on a wooden table and try to make it look like a Carvaggio, please send me a letter of anthrax...

    hahah, ok, back to work...



 

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