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  1. #11
    mooseontheloose's Avatar
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    Agreed -- with lith, the type of paper used has more of an impact than the type of developer (in my experience). I've also not had much luck with Ilford WT. If you don't like the way a paper is lithing, change the paper (not the developer).

    And in terms of "peppering", I've only had that occur in one type of paper (the Fujibro -- there's an example in my gallery). What I thought was peppering with Ilford WT was not -- as explained by both Tim Rudman and Wolfgang Moersch in a post I made a while ago. There still may be examples of peppering in the gallery somewhere from that initial query.

    EDIT: There is, just added the links, and a crop from the Fujibro that showed peppering. Unfortunately I removed the other photo of the print I made on Ilford WT and no longer have access to the scanned file.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lith_statue_3b_peppercrop.jpg  
    Last edited by mooseontheloose; 12-07-2010 at 07:52 AM. Click to view previous post history.
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  2. #12
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    Yes, that's a good thread. It is good to know the difference between pepper fogging and the inherent lith grain - something being peppery can relate to two different things in the case of lith. I am thinking of pepper fogging as more of black spots erupting randomly, rather than a more general grain. I think the black spots is what I see in your Fujibro example?
    “Do your work, then step back. The only path to serenity.” - Lao Tzu

  3. #13

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    Hello all,

    I'm also new to Lith and not sure if this belongs here, or of it should be a new thread, but I have very similar questions to the OP. I did some printing last night with Moersch Easy Lith (20ml+20ml+800ml+200ml Old Brown) and Varycon KG paper. I made 4 6"x6" prints in about 4 hours. They were all exposed the same (2min. @ F8, grade 3) with constant agitation (@68 F), but the development time increased with each print (23min., 25min., 29 min. and 41min.).

    The questions I have are:
    1) I assume that it is normal for the development time to increase as the developer exhausts?
    2) I noticed that the contrast also increases as the development time increases, is that normal?
    3) The grain size is quite large, so there isn't a lot of detail in some areas of the picture. Is that a function of the type of paper I'm using? (I was looking at some of the image in the lith galleries and some of the images seem to have a lot finer detail than I'm getting.)

    Thanks everyone, sorry of I\m butting in on the conversation.
    Craig

  4. #14
    Jerevan's Avatar
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    Craig,

    1. Yes, development increases as the developer exhausts. One can replenish the developer or raise the temperature to resurrect it. Lift out the paper and pour in some replensihment.
    2. From my own experience, I think it is normal to get increase in contrast.
    3. It is a function of the paper - some papers are more suited for fine details (Fomatone for example).

    I haven't used the Varycon but from your agitation times, it seems like a slow paper. Try upping the temperature a bit to get shorter dev times.
    Last edited by Jerevan; 12-07-2010 at 01:18 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    “Do your work, then step back. The only path to serenity.” - Lao Tzu

  5. #15
    Dan Henderson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccross View Post
    Hello all,

    I'm also new to Lith and not sure if this belongs here, or of it should be a new thread, but I have very similar questions to the OP. I did some printing last night with Moersch Easy Lith (20ml+20ml+800ml+200ml Old Brown) and Varycon KG paper. I made 4 6"x6" prints in about 4 hours. They were all exposed the same (2min. @ F8, grade 3) with constant agitation (@68 F), but the development time increased with each print (23min., 25min., 29 min. and 41min.).

    The questions I have are:
    1) I assume that it is normal for the development time to increase as the developer exhausts?
    2) I noticed that the contrast also increases as the development time increases, is that normal?
    3) The grain size is quite large, so there isn't a lot of detail in some areas of the picture. Is that a function of the type of paper I'm using? (I was looking at some of the image in the lith galleries and some of the images seem to have a lot finer detail than I'm getting.)

    Thanks everyone, sorry of I\m butting in on the conversation.
    Craig
    Craig: first, no one will consider that you are "butting in" on the conversation, unless, I suppose, you tried to take it in a completely pointless and unhelpful direction, which you are not.

    Second, regarding your exposure information: when you said "grade 3" did you mean a grade 3 paper or that you have a grade 3 filter in place? If it is the second you might try eliminating the filter. Contrast in lith printing is controlled by exposure and development times. Try giving the print just enough exposure with no filter to get the highlight tone you want, and snatch the print when the shadows are where you want them. If the contrast in the resulting print is too low, reduce exposure time and snatch when the blacks are ready. Conversely, if the contrast is too high, increase exposure time. Getting the filter out of the way will also reduce your exposure time by a stop.


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  6. #16

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    Thanks for the info Jerevan and Dan, I've still got a lot of practicing to do.

    Craig

  7. #17

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    Hi, good to see the Lith Print Exchangers working so hard! :-)

    Craig, Varycon is rather slow, especially in Lith; I have experienced that as well. It is surely a good idea to loose the grade filter, it won't be needed and will make exposure much faster. As for development, I have found that Varycon really needs very dilute developer to show some color (if you want that) - which means even longer development times, developer dying sooner etc. Just the other night I had to replenish during development.. At that time, the print had been in the developer for over half an hour. After replenishment, it still took almost 15 minutes until snatch point.

    The only solution for this: using the developer hot (around 30-40°C). All of a sudden, times even for very dilute developer are 3-7 minutes. It dies even faster because it is hot, but at least you dont have to sit around in the dark for half an hour before thinking "mmmh... is the developer dying?"

    Regarding the details/graininess of the Varycon, Jerevan is correct, it is mainly a function of the paper. But I have found Varycon to be able to almost match the details in Fomatone. Moreover, grain size is also related to the exposure/development. Dark tones make the grain look much bigger. How this can be connected to development control (via more/less dilution and thus development time) I dont know. But there are experts around on APUG... Mr. Rudman, maybe?

    regards, Chris

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