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  1. #11
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Shaz ;

    Contact with the exporter and learn who buy ton of that stuff. May be you can buy from the end user.
    You can not predict the exact dyes from the book , my link cover that stuff. Sigma is the seller of much of that dyes. My link cover how you will dye the starch. One of the two reds is very expensive.
    And most importantly , the problem is panchromatic emulsion. I learned from Photo Engineer , no emulsion sensitizer today does not match with the curves of autochrome graphs at the book.
    So if you want to do the original autochrome , you must change the recipe at the book and the link.
    Yes every chemical available except the sensitizers in the emulsion. May be book covers that but it is in french. What book suggest for the sensitizers ? Please share .

    Thank you ,

    Umut

  2. #12
    shaz's Avatar
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    For the end user of the pale latex crepe i found : "France Neir" ; for the moment.
    For the Dyes i found : "Coger". Thank you for "Sigma". I will have a look.
    In the book of B.Lavédrine, all the process for dying the patatoe starch is explained.
    For the panchromatic emulsion i found a photograph who is ready to send me a litlle bit of this emulsion...if i resolve all the problems before.
    Here i found this:

    http://glsmyth.com/AltProcess/Articles/DyeTransfer.htm

    This is all for the moment.

    Shaz

  3. #13

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    Shaz:

    It was my impression that the surface of the glass plate was first coated with optical-quality pitch, into which the starch particles would be imbedded. I had also read that optical-quality beeswax was added to the pitch, in order to improve adhesion.

    Pitch is used by amateur telescope makers. A good source would be Willmann-Bell. They have both the pitch and the beeswax, in addition to a mixed version, called Burgundy pitch.

    Individuals may have difficulty purchasing from Sigma, due to the high level of paranoia in American food-related industries. I purchased some potato starch from them several years ago, and had to justify my purchase to a high standard. Fortunately, at the time, I was in a food manufacturing industry (I owned a brewery), and they allowed the sale. Perhaps they've loosened their standards by now, but that's to be determined.

    Charley

    ps: I have the Lavédrine book, and it is spectacularly beautiful. Alas, my French is almost nonexistant now, and I struggle to get through a few pages now and again. On which page is the "pale latex crepe" reference?

  4. #14
    shaz's Avatar
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    Hello c.d.ewen,

    For the patatoe starch, i found the seller in France. Now i have to do a sort; by "lévigation" or with a sieve of 15 microns first.

    In the book for the first varnish you need :

    -pale latex crepe
    -benzine
    -résène ( résène is from the "gomme de dammar" ) i think in in english you say "gum of dammar" . But you need just the wax (résène) of the "gum of dammar". To take the wax you put the "gum of dammar" in the "acétate d'éthyle".

    Pale latex crepe is not referenced in the book....someone tell me .

    For the second varnish something make me afraid..because you need to found "nitrate de cellulose" = nitocellulose ????

    Shaz

  5. #15
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    When reading references about autochrome plates, I saw "pine pitch" mentioned - Damar Gum could well be the material that was used. You should be able to purchase small quantities from a traditional artist's supplier such as Cornelissen. Damar will dissolve in pure turpentine (not a substitute).

    "nitrate de cellulose"
    would be cellulose varnish - Also available from an artist supplier or anyone selling automotive paints. Very flamable stuff, but not explosive

  6. #16
    shaz's Avatar
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    Hello paul_c5x4,

    Yes, the damar gum is mentionned in the book of B.Lavédrine. In this book you can read that this gum is dissolved in "acétate d'éthyle"...i don't know the good word in english. .

    I have the answer of an enterprise which sell varnish and they said to me that all the cellulose varnish are not transparent....they say to take a polyuréthane/acrylique varnish. Now i have to know how is made this varnish...imagine that it dissolve the first varnish .

    Shaz
    Last edited by shaz; 03-07-2011 at 04:38 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #17
    shaz's Avatar
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    I found on internet a cellulose varnish without color.

    Shaz

  8. #18
    paul_c5x4's Avatar
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    "acétate d'éthyle"...i don't know the good word in english.
    From brenntag.be CAS No: 141-78-6 - ethyl acetate (Not that much different to the French name).

    I have found that it is often a waste of time talking to industrial suppliers when trying to find ingredients for old processes. Try instead, a specialist art shop that can supply raw ingredients to make paint in the style of Van Gogh or Picasso.

    Nitro-cellulose varnish (lacquer) is no longer used in the quantities that it was and most people use an acrylic or polyurethane varnish - Neither of these would have been available to the Lumière brothers in 1903. It is likely that they used Shellac for the final coating.

  9. #19
    shaz's Avatar
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    You're right, it's not so different .

    I think that i keep cellulose varnish for the Autochrome. I'm gone try to find a specialist artshop like you say, perhaps he would tell me the composition. Just for make the difference with Lumière varnish.

    Thank you for your help .

    Shaz

  10. #20
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Cellulose varnish is widest used musical instrument varnish coat in the world. You must pressure spray it from a narrow nozzle and you can find these machines from many art supply stores. And of course you can find it clear.

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