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  1. #11

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    hi aaron

    i used a 5% ( normal is 24% ) hypo ( plain old sodium thio + water )
    i also used 10% hypo with sodium carbonate in it, and 5% with carbonate in it ..
    sometimes after like 4 or 5 seconds "poof! "

  2. #12
    holmburgers's Avatar
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    Yeah, don't fix it! 3 months literally down the drain...

    POP papers were usually gold toned. And since it is b&w paper, I would try to tone it before doing anything else.

    Here's a completely theoretical suggestion; what if there was someway to transfer the image chemically to a new sheet of paper. For instance, carbro tissues were "exposed" by bringing a fixed out b&w print into intimate contact with the gelatin tissue in the presence of a carbro bleach. Granted, there are some problems here; for one your print is not fixed, therefore, are the image-bearing silvers in halide or metallic form?? Secondly, we're talking about gelatin tissues, and so that's a PITA. I guess my point is, there could be some way to transfer the image into a fixable form. Just thinking aloud... probably better stick with toning...
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  3. #13
    David William White's Avatar
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    Maybe toning, but the colour would change. A lift or a transfer is getting rid of the paper base, but it's not the problem. If as John says, contact printing and scanning fog the image, then maybe just photo reproduction onto colour stock by diffuse window-light.

    Aaron: I presume you scanned. How is your paper negative now?
    Considerably AWOL at the present time...

    Archive/Blog: http://davidwilliamwhite.blogspot.com

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by holmburgers View Post
    Yeah, don't fix it! 3 months literally down the drain...

    POP papers were usually gold toned. And since it is b&w paper, I would try to tone it before doing anything else.

    Here's a completely theoretical suggestion; what if there was someway to transfer the image chemically to a new sheet of paper. For instance, carbro tissues were "exposed" by bringing a fixed out b&w print into intimate contact with the gelatin tissue in the presence of a carbro bleach. Granted, there are some problems here; for one your print is not fixed, therefore, are the image-bearing silvers in halide or metallic form?? Secondly, we're talking about gelatin tissues, and so that's a PITA. I guess my point is, there could be some way to transfer the image into a fixable form. Just thinking aloud... probably better stick with toning...
    The image bearing silvers have to be still in halide form - from my understanding. Because the developer is what turns the silver into metallic silver, correct? The carbro bleach sounds like too much work and I'm not familiar with the process so I think that's out the door.

    I'd like to keep the color how it is but what would the purpose be of toning the image and then trying to fix it? I've never toned before. Even if the image changed color, I could still use it for contact printing onto color or black and white paper. Would still look interesting. Better than not being able to contact print at all or not being able to take it outside to show people.

    I think I've scanned it a total of three times now and by the third scan it didn't look like the image lost too much detail. I've also had it out to show people under artificial light and didn't seem to have that great of an effect. When you think about it, the artificial light from a scanner and indoor lighting are pretty weak compared to the sun.

    I asked our lab manager here at school and he said he has some sodium thiosulfate that I could use. I have another solargraph image that I don't care about as much so I might try it out on that one. Does anyone have a solution to make sodium thiosulfate and water (the ratio, the temperature, and how to dissolve)?

  5. #15
    holmburgers's Avatar
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    Sodium thiosulfate is fixer and I seriously think your image will completely disappear.

    The carbro idea was just a "throwing it out there" kinda thing... I don't think it would even work in this case.

    But it's possible that a similar mechanism might exist in the annals of photography.

    Toning would certainly change the color, but to be toned there must be metallic silver. I think that light has the ability to make a silver halide "adsorb a speck of metallic silver", in the parlance of old photo books. Just like a printing out paper. But then by that reasoning, it should be fixable. So to be honest, I really don't know. I wish you luck!!

    If you can figure out a good way to fix the image, then we can use outdated paper for POP purposes and actually have a permanent image.
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  6. #16
    aaronmichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by holmburgers View Post
    Sodium thiosulfate is fixer and I seriously think your image will completely disappear.

    The carbro idea was just a "throwing it out there" kinda thing... I don't think it would even work in this case.

    But it's possible that a similar mechanism might exist in the annals of photography.

    Toning would certainly change the color, but to be toned there must be metallic silver. I think that light has the ability to make a silver halide "adsorb a speck of metallic silver", in the parlance of old photo books. Just like a printing out paper. But then by that reasoning, it should be fixable. So to be honest, I really don't know. I wish you luck!!

    If you can figure out a good way to fix the image, then we can use outdated paper for POP purposes and actually have a permanent image.
    Thanks for the response. Suppose I'll try some stuff out and see what happens. I won't do any testing on the three month one though

  7. #17

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    unfortunately there is no way to fix these ephemeral images.
    it is one of the things we learned from Nicéphore Niépce

    i thought with all this modern-stuff and modern ideas
    and modern technology and forward thinkers thinking backwards
    that i too would learn of ways to make these things light safe ..

    if HE only had a scan-machine photography as we know it would be totally different


    aaron
    regular dilution for sodium thiosulphate is 24%
    so 24g / 100cc of water or 240 / 1000cc ( 1L ) water.
    the more you dilute it, the longer you will need to soak your
    prints in it, and the more of a chance they will have of vanishing
    have fun!
    john

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    unfortunately there is no way to fix these ephemeral images.
    it is one of the things we learned from Nicéphore Niépce

    i thought with all this modern-stuff and modern ideas
    and modern technology and forward thinkers thinking backwards
    that i too would learn of ways to make these things light safe ..

    if HE only had a scan-machine photography as we know it would be totally different


    aaron
    regular dilution for sodium thiosulphate is 24%
    so 24g / 100cc of water or 240 / 1000cc ( 1L ) water.
    the more you dilute it, the longer you will need to soak your
    prints in it, and the more of a chance they will have of vanishing
    have fun!
    john
    Thanks John, I suppose I'll just have to keep my solargraph images locked up in a black box somewhere. Then it turns into "What's the point of having them in there if you can't take them out and show them to people?" - hahah.

  9. #19
    David William White's Avatar
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    Before you do anything though, set them up and photograph them with colour film. You can reproduce them from there and hang them on the wall.
    Considerably AWOL at the present time...

    Archive/Blog: http://davidwilliamwhite.blogspot.com

  10. #20
    aaronmichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David William White View Post
    Before you do anything though, set them up and photograph them with colour film. You can reproduce them from there and hang them on the wall.
    Hmm - interesting idea. Thanks for that.

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