An alternative to gelatin.

[patrickdufour]

Hey guys,

After years of shooting 35mm and medium format I've recently discovered a passion for large format photography.
I've been wanting to take a stab at coating my own plates and was wondering if there is an emulsion that can be brewed that contains no gelatin. As a vegetarian I thought it would be a fun project to take up.

Cheers Patrick.

P.S. I understand that the only way to avoid all animal products is to move into an Igloo and gnaw on pine cones.

[holmburgers]

Yeah right... the Inuit are some of the best meat eaters out there...

wildbillbugman (Bill Winkler) has been doing a lot of work on exactly this thing. See this thread.

And here's a brief primer on how to select a medium.

Now, if you're the kind of vegetarian that eats fish, maybe fish gelatin is the thing for you! Check this out.

Or I guess you could pick up the collodion process. The only living-thing ingredient there is cotton.

Best of luck.

[wildbillbugman]

Patrick,
If you wish, I will send you a specific formula and procedure for a blue-sensitive emulsion based on commercial silane treated PVA. I am currently waiting for a delivery of silver nitrate and have not made an emulsion since September. I have had other things I had to do. If you are interested in ortho or panchro emulsions, I can send info on that too. But I strongly recommend doing a simple blue sensitive emulsion first. BTW- Bostick and Sullivan now carry Kuraray R1100 silane funtional PVA.
Bill

[CRhymer]

Patrick,

If not, you can always shred the new $100 Canadian banknotes, when released. I believe they are being made of the same material.

Cheers,
Clarence

[David Lyga]

Also, I am a vegetarian and am very cognizant of the hypocrasy which I am guilty of. I do wish there was a 'way out' of the dilemma. - David Lyga.

[Vaughn]

Can vegans eat their own words?

[Photo Engineer]

Gelatin supplies 2 important functions in emulsion making. Gelatin functions as a peptizing agent and as a vehicle.

As a peptizer, it prevents silver halide from falling to the bottom of your beaker in one lump or a few large lumps. Instead, gelatin suspends the crystals in a creamy mixture.

As a vehicle, it supplies a viscous "melt" that can be coated and hardened and which remains intact through the processing procedure. It must be transparent and colorless.

If you select a material for emulsion making it must do all of the above. At EK we never found a single polymer that could do all of the above. We found two families of polymers that supplied the features of a peptizing agent and as a vehicle individually. That is about it.

Bill has had some success with the Silanes. I hope this is of use to all of us.

PE

[patrickdufour]

holmburgers: thank you for the links.
wildbillbugman: Thank you, I would appreciate the formula and procedure for the blue-sensitive emulsion based on commercial silane.
CRhymer: I can't wait to pick up some new 100$ and make a trip to NYC.
David Lyga: its a hard line to draw.
Vaughn: Deciding where to draw the line is an interesting experience. You tend to learn a lot about yourself.
Photo Engineer: Thanks for explanation about its function when you say you worked at EK where was that?

Thank you everybody for your help.

[CRhymer]

CRhymer: I can't wait to pick up some new 100$ and make a trip to NYC.

Hello Patrick,

Well I just got back from Rochester, NY (I live in Fort Smith, NT, X0E 0P0) and I found that my old pre-PVA 100$'s bought a lot more there than they do here North of 60. I believe Kuraray is the supplier of the plastic for the notes. (I am not making this up - 'though I may be mistaken).

Salut,
Clarence

[MattKing]

Photo Engineer: Thanks for explanation about its function when you say you worked at EK where was that?

Thank you everybody for your help.

I won't presume to answer for Ron (aka Photo Engineer), except to give Patrick a sort of hint:

Ron's name is attached to one of the main patents related to Kodachrome, and he lives in Rochester, New York.