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Thread: Jobo Resistor

  1. #21
    Nicholas Lindan's Avatar
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    For sucking solder I don't know of better at anywhere near the money:

    http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Desolder.../dp/B000ARPULW
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  2. #22
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    At that price the OP could order the whole board shipped from overseas.
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  3. #23
    ic-racer's Avatar
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    I bought a Durst with a similar problem involving a resistor snubber for a relay. This one was for the Durst CLS2000 shutter motor. I replaced the fried components and it has been fine ever since.


  4. #24
    Thiago Lara's Avatar
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    WOOHOO!!!





    So, it was the motor. I managed to test it with a different supply, and got the same noise and everything.

    Since I already had found a spare motor to buy on a reasonable price, having nothing to loose, and inspired by Hoffy's threads already mentioned here, I decided to open the motor:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It was very dirty inside... This processor looks like it was burried, go figure! Anyway, I dismantled everything was possible, cleaned, closed, and it worked!



    The led flickering was just... the led, broken wire. The motor is running close to 60 rpm, maybe something like 55 rpm, but it does get a little slower when the heater clicks on as you can see in the video. I don't think it's anything significant, tough. Just asking: Do you know if is that normal on the CPE? My CPA doesn't do that.

    The sparkling resistor keeps sparkling, although not that often. It sparkles once each 5 to 8 inversions. Anyway, I've already found the components locally here and I'm planning to do the repair. But I'm getting just a little afraid of doing it, since the thing is now working. Do you think this board repair is really a must? I mean, do you think the processor will work any better after the repair, or can it be damaged again for not doing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    Replace the resistor with another resistor of about 100 ohms rated at 1/2 watt. Also replace the little blue capacitor next to it with a capacitor 0.1uF or 100nF (same value, just two different methods of specifying) rated at 250v or 400v.

    No need to change the relay or motor yet, just see if this sorts it out.


    Steve.
    Hey Steve, you were the only one wich provided me specific data about the components, so I'm on your recipe here. Would you please check if I'm getting the proper components?

    I think I got the proper resistor, 1/2 watt, in this case the "100 ohms" would be the "100R" option in the link below, right?

    http://loja.multcomercial.com.br/eco...inimo-10-pecas

    But for the capacitor, I found several options that would fit the "description"... as far as I could get, "nF" is the same as "kpF", right?

    Here's one 100K/400V and 100K/250V:
    http://loja.multcomercial.com.br/eco...e-B32591-Epcos

    Here's one 100K/250VAC (AC? is it different than just "V"?):
    http://loja.multcomercial.com.br/eco...e-B81192-Epcos

    And also this one, but by the picture it looks a little different from the one in my board:
    http://loja.multcomercial.com.br/eco...e-B32529-Epcos

    Which one should I get? Also, I didn't mentioned before, my processor is 110V, I don't know if there's any difference... Since I'm seeing 250v and 400v on the capacitors... just mentioning.

    I imagine there's a certain direction for the components on the board. How should I identify it on the components?

    Also, thank you very much from all your inputs on soldering. I have no experience on dealing with electronics or soldering at all, so all the scenarios and experiences you shared will be taken into consideration when dealing with the procedure.

    Thank you very much so far, Apug!
    Last edited by Thiago Lara; 04-30-2012 at 11:45 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #25
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    The resistor is fine and I would use either of the frst two capacitors. Your supplier uses a different marking system to what I would consider normal so get the one marked 100KpF as I assume that is 100nF.

    It doesn't matter which way round you put them in.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  6. #26
    Nicholas Lindan's Avatar
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    Sparky should get replaced - if not the relay contacts will pit and you will have to replace the relay. It isn't an extremely urgent repair. When the resistor doesn't spark that is because the relay contacts are sparking to save the resistor.

    The little blue capacitor next to sparky should have some numbers on it - 0.01 would be 0.01 uF 10,000 pF, 10nF or 10KpF; 0.1 would be 0.1uF, 100nF, 100KpF and so forth.

    Capacitors marked "250VAC" are for connection to the AC wiring. They are actually 1,500V or 3,000V capacitors so they don't fail if there is a lightning strike to the power lines or some such. These capacitors are big, say 2 cm long.

    If you can't read the markings on the capacitor on the board then a use a 100kpF capacitor and everything should be OK. Expect the capacitor to be larger than the one that failed. Get a capacitor rated for 400VDC.

    The resistor and capacitor you will be replacing are not direction sensitive, though some other components are.

    In the last picture of the motor you can see the two brown/orange capacitors used for suppressing EMI (radio interference) from the motor brushes - the capacitors work with the coils on either side of the brushes. Capacitors and resistors across the relay contacts are there to suppress the inductive voltage surge that happens when the relay opens to reverse direction - they also suppress the 'click' you would hear on the radio when the motor reverses.
    Last edited by Nicholas Lindan; 04-30-2012 at 11:55 AM. Click to view previous post history.
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  7. #27
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Nicholas is right, if you have a choice between a 250 volt and 400 volt capacitor, get the 400 volt one.

    I don't know if this will help you understand the function of the resistor and capacitor but it's like the capacitor (usually called a condenser) in the distributor of a car with a set of points and coil (rather than a more modern electronic ignition system). If you run the engine without the capacitor you will get large sparks when the points open which will quickly wear out their contact surfaces. The capacitor/condenser absorbs most of this energy so the points last longer.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  8. #28
    polyglot's Avatar
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    100K does not mean "100kPF", it means 10pF with tolerance K (10%); if you buy one marked 100K, it is 10000x too small. The marking XYZ means XY * 10^Z pF so if you want 10nF, it needs to be marked 103. If the markings on the old one aren't obliterated, get one with the same markings though the K doesn't really matter, it's just the default cheap grade. If the markings are obliterated, I would suggest 100nF (104) instead.

    Some (typically monolithic) capacitors come marked in nF anyway, e.g. "100nJ" (100nF, 5%), which is what you want. Note that that must be a lowercase n; "100N" would mean 10pF with 30% tolerance.

    The Jobo motor runs only at about 24V (so your mains voltage is pretty irrelevant); the reason for the high voltage rating on the capacitor is because it's part of a snubber network that needs to absorb all of the inductive energy from the motor when the relay contacts disconnect. That means that the capacitor will charge up to quite a high voltage and you should get the 400V one if you can, if it will physically fit and only if it is of the same type (probably ceramic).

    You want either a ceramic or monolithic capacitor. Polyester is acceptable but not great, tantalum and electrolytic are unacceptable.

    The resistor and capacitor are both non-polarised, so direction is electrically irrelevant. And because this is a bidirectional motor circuit, the snubber will be operated in both polarities anyway. People tend to try and have all the components facing the same way on the board so that they can be easily read without flipping the thing back and forth.
    Last edited by polyglot; 04-30-2012 at 06:38 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #29
    Nicholas Lindan's Avatar
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    I've never seen the "KpF" designation used in the States - but 100KpF would be read as 100,000 pF / 100nF / 0.1uF with a scratch of the head.

    Capacitors are marked 104K in the US for a 100,000 pF 20% capacitor but there is no trailing pF on the part. One marked "100K" would indeed be a 10pF capacitor. nF are common on EU parts and rare on US made. The use of uF for marking small capacitors is fading in the States - though still used in the imaginations of the older generation...

    In this Spanish distributor's web site, though, it seems that KpF does mean thousands of pF:
    http://www.cetronic.es/sqlcommerce/d...h=962&expand=0
    To allay the sort of confusion arising here the distributor also shows the values in uF.

    Where a picture is shown the part itself shows 100nF for a capacitor listed as 100KpF
    http://www.cetronic.es/sqlcommerce/d...4016&cPath=962

    Different countries have different designations for the same part. The use of K here can certainly cause confusion in the ROW.
    Last edited by Nicholas Lindan; 04-30-2012 at 07:45 PM. Click to view previous post history.
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  10. #30

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    hello
    I rencently bought a Jobo CPE2 down, with the hope of repair.
    the previous owner changed the relay, but I'm not sure that the installation is good. have you the pinout of the genuine relay , thank you

    Click image for larger version. 

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