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  1. #1
    Jeff Bannow's Avatar
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    Gas / Nitrogen Burst Development?

    I'm surprised to find not a lot of talk in the archives about this topic. I was looking at the Alistair Inglis gas burst system, which as I understand it Michael Kadillak helped to design.

    Anyone have experience with this or other gas burst systems? I'm considering such a system for 120 and 4x5, and am curious to hear people's opinions.

    Also, I understand that there's a View Camera article on the subject - any idea what issue and where I can find a copy? Also looking for "Gaseous-Burst Agitation in Processing," Kodak Pamphlet No. E-57.
    - Jeff (& sometimes Eva, too) - http://www.jeffbannow.com

  2. #2
    wildbill's Avatar
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    I don't know much about it but I believe it requires a LOT of chemistry (think replenishment) and would be more suitable for a lab that processes large quantities of film on a daily basis. That may be why you're aren't finding search results.

    You're crazy.
    www.vinnywalsh.com

    I know what I want but I just don't know how to go about gettin' it.-Hendrix

  3. #3
    Jeff Bannow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
    I don't know much about it but I believe it requires a LOT of chemistry (think replenishment) and would be more suitable for a lab that processes large quantities of film on a daily basis. That may be why you're aren't finding search results.

    You're crazy.
    I've heard that, but it looks like this system is scaled down for more reasonable amounts. Not sure though - definitely something I'll need to check into.
    - Jeff (& sometimes Eva, too) - http://www.jeffbannow.com

  4. #4
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Jeff:

    I haven't dealt with him directly, but I know a few who have, and they've indicated to me that Alistair is very approachable.

    He lives and works up near my end of the world, so I've been trying to find an excuse to go visit him .
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  5. #5
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Hi Jeff,

    I've toyed with this idea in the past as well.

    When I do sheet film in hangers in deep tanks I have no problem at all with streaking or non-uniform skies. But the negative edges are always compromised. There is no real way around that when using hand agitation to physically lift and lower the loaded hangers through the developer. I've always just considered the compromised edges to be a sort of de facto LF film rebate where the final image itself resides inside of those edges.

    But I have wondered if keeping the hangers stationary and using gaseous burst agitiation to move the developer instead might somewhat mitigate the effect.

    Another consideration (for me) is the probable need to leave the equipment set up full time. Don't know if that's a design requirement. But I have a small—albeit well-equipped—darkroom where every cubic centimeter is allocated. Everything has a place where it lives, and back to which it MUST be returned after use, or there will be no room to do anything else. That's also why replenishment is not feasible for me. Can't really leave the stuff set up permanently.

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  6. #6
    Jeff Bannow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    Another consideration (for me) is the probable need to leave the equipment set up full time. Don't know if that's a design requirement. But I have a small—albeit well-equipped—darkroom where every cubic centimeter is allocated. Everything has a place where it lives, and back to which it MUST be returned after use, or there will be no more room to do anything else. That's also why replenishment is not feasible for me. Can't really leave the stuff set up permanently.

    Ken
    Space isn't as much of a concern for me, although I would need to remove the unit out of my sink when not being used. I could keep a tank and hose mounted though.
    - Jeff (& sometimes Eva, too) - http://www.jeffbannow.com

  7. #7
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Jeff

    nitrogen burst is used for larger deep tank machines like Refremas .. There is an exacting science/engineering proceedure to make sure when sheet film is clipped the development is
    even across the film . This is very , very hard to do and the best labs spend $$$$$ making this happen.
    For a smaller tank it would be adequate but not precision development.
    For small tank development which I use for my solarization work I use the Kodak method of hand agitation. Which works very well if you are patient and repeatable in your steps.

    I see no reason to use nitrogen burst for your application, when hand agitation will work very well. I think you will find uneven development issues.


    Bob
    QUOTE=Jeff Bannow;1375247]Space isn't as much of a concern for me, although I would need to remove the unit out of my sink when not being used. I could keep a tank and hose mounted though.[/QUOTE]

  8. #8
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Jeff;

    Gas burst can be used with any size tank and thus it can be used with any volume of solution.

    The limiting factor is the size of the sparger that goes into your tank. It must be designed to fit the tank and to move between tanks. Or, you need multiple spargers, one for each tank.

    You need 3 things; the sparger(s), a timer with solenoid valve, and a nitrogen tank with pressure reducer and tubing.

    I have used this system extensively from small tanks to huge 16x20 tanks in our Calumet processor. They are great for uniformity and high quality. The system also pushes CO2 and O2 out of the process solutions and IMHO it thus prolongs their life.

    I love the Nitrogen burst system!! With proper design, you could even use it with reels. I have also seen dark lids for the tanks that fit over spargers so that you can work in the light to a certain extent.

    PE

  9. #9
    CGW
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    Isn't this just a miniaturization of the big Refrema processors' burst system?

  10. #10
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Don't be lazy, agitatate the film clips by hand.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

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