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  1. #11
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by krifartida View Post
    5 years ago digital cameras and film processing labs were in a hugely different state, status and customer base.

    As someone noted - the whole world economic crisis seems to be just a slogan for some cause, judging by the way people are spending their money on what would be an esoteric\hobby\niche thing even 10 years ago.
    Exactly. So what makes the outlook rosier for JOBO--if that's your point? Still lots of $ soaked up by photography, just not analog photography in my area.

  2. #12

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    According to the press release, and what i have been seeing personally in the past 2 years there has been an exceptional rise in demand for Jobo gear, for which ever reason.
    They are calling it "record" sales in the press release. I guess if your last year sales were 0, then any sales are a record number, though the demand is there.

    Why now, why this machine, why this price range\market - are all good questions i have not an answer for. But I do not think we are looking at a mass production to feed a massive global demand, rather a precise production to meet the demand of the existing market, along with support, that is part of a revitalizing of the analog market in general, which is something that we read about in that article a few months ago, about the new business model of the film industry (see lomo, ilford, kodak...).

    Why is tetenal coming back to production and distribution in the US? who knows, its not like they were selling en mass before they stopped about 2 years ago, but i guess they have re strategized their market plan to create a more sustainable economic system to sell their products.

    Only time will tell weather or not these moves by Jobo or tetenal meant anything or were just a cough in long history of the demise of film.

  3. #13

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    Update from Jobo RE: the CPP# at Photokina

    Now that Jobo is putting out a new processor and have service depots in the US, does that mean that current owners of Jobo processors, myself included, will be able to get parts and service eventually or will we have to fend for ourselves ??.

    Doug

  4. #14
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    It has been noted here in several threads that film sales have bottomed and are actually on a bit of an upswing. Combine that fact with the previously noted demise in commercial labs, and there are a lot of people who would be willing to fork over $3500 for a home lab instead of having to ship their film to New York or LA from Outer Kalamazoo and wait ten days to get it back. You can save that $3500 pretty quick on lab fees and shipping charges if you're doing any kind of volume, or you're doing odd sizes like 5x12 sheet film.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by spoolman View Post
    Now that Jobo is putting out a new processor and have service depots in the US, does that mean that current owners of Jobo processors, myself included, will be able to get parts and service eventually or will we have to fend for ourselves ??.

    Doug
    Regardless of weather or no Jobo actually ever goes into production of a new machine - spare parts are available now, have been and will be on a regular basis form a USA based supplier - just google "Jobo parts" - the first result is a service and spare part supply for Jobo machines. Easy.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Exactly. So what makes the outlook rosier for JOBO--if that's your point? Still lots of $ soaked up by photography, just not analog photography in my area.
    You so often forget, when this subject comes up, that your area is not everywhere and everywhere is not like your area. All the labs are not closed down where I live, nor are they where many Apuggers live. These Jobo units can serve well as part of an analog line of business for a multi-service, mostly digital photo store that cannot justify using the larger machines any more. You seem to think that the only way anything can be done is big, full time and in mass quantities, or it can't be done at all. That's just pure, out-and-out nonsense, as millions and millions of small business people around the world know.

    Right-sized Ilford will be stomping on clumsy giant Kodak's grave. Fuji has made the transition to a right-sized film division surrounded by technologically related businesses where Kodak fumbled and failed, building a gigantic high-volume plant at just the wrong time. Kodak then proceeded to actively wreck their old business, not only before succeeding in anything new, but while failing in almost everything new. Not everybody in the film business is that colossally stupid.

  7. #17
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbromaghin View Post
    You so often forget, when this subject comes up, that your area is not everywhere and everywhere is not like your area. All the labs are not closed down where I live, nor are they where many Apuggers live. These Jobo units can serve well as part of an analog line of business for a multi-service, mostly digital photo store that cannot justify using the larger machines any more. You seem to think that the only way anything can be done is big, full time and in mass quantities, or it can't be done at all. That's just pure, out-and-out nonsense, as millions and millions of small business people around the world know.

    Right-sized Ilford will be stomping on clumsy giant Kodak's grave. Fuji has made the transition to a right-sized film division surrounded by technologically related businesses where Kodak fumbled and failed, building a gigantic high-volume plant at just the wrong time. Kodak then proceeded to actively wreck their old business, not only before succeeding in anything new, but while failing in almost everything new. Not everybody in the film business is that colossally stupid.
    We seem to be back where we started in early 2012 with denial of what led to Kodak's bankruptcy filing--a decade-long collapse in demand for film products and services. Labs closed or shut-down film services for lack of customers. A new JOBO in the backroom won't trigger any miracles now--assuming a lab owner would gamble on a "field of dreams" style business plan. It's not matter of the film industry's intelligence but of demand for its products that's key now. Call it nonsense if you like.

    JOBO might have considered a cheaper model than this one. They make a good product but may have read the tea leaves incorrectly.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    We seem to be back where we started in early 2012 with denial of what led to Kodak's bankruptcy filing--a decade-long collapse in demand for film products and services. Labs closed or shut-down film services for lack of customers. A new JOBO in the backroom won't trigger any miracles now--assuming a lab owner would gamble on a "field of dreams" style business plan. It's not matter of the film industry's intelligence but of demand for its products that's key now. Call it nonsense if you like.

    JOBO might have considered a cheaper model than this one. They make a good product but may have read the tea leaves incorrectly.
    The denial is your refusal to see that there will be a post-collapse world of film, that it is possible to be successful in it, that some are positioning themselves to do so; and your insistence that any success they have will be a miracle. I didn't say it was a matter of the industry's intelligence - there are a lot of smart failures in this world. Whether these people succeed or fail will be a matter of wisdom.

    Fuji and llford have both been able to survive the collapse where Kodak was not, and they did it in vastly different ways. Ilford did it by shrinking and focusing on excellence in a narrow product line, Fuji by expanding into seemingly unrelated industries based on their chemistry and coating technology. Can anybody clearly describe Kodak's approach in as few words?

  9. #19
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbromaghin View Post
    The denial is your refusal to see that there will be a post-collapse world of film, that it is possible to be successful in it, that some are positioning themselves to do so; and your insistence that any success they have will be a miracle. I didn't say it was a matter of the industry's intelligence - there are a lot of smart failures in this world. Whether these people succeed or fail will be a matter of wisdom.

    Fuji and llford have both been able to survive the collapse where Kodak was not, and they did it in vastly different ways. Ilford did it by shrinking and focusing on excellence in a narrow product line, Fuji by expanding into seemingly unrelated industries based on their chemistry and coating technology. Can anybody clearly describe Kodak's approach in as few words?
    I'm living in the cratered post-collapse present. "Last man standing" is a very chancy business strategy, especially if you're not concerned where all the competition went. Toronto is a large city with a sizeable photo community. Sad fact is, it presently supports only two surviving, first-rate pro labs with film services--Toronto Image Works and Bob Carnie's Elevator Digital. Cheap C-41 processing went with the demise of mass market 35mm shooters. So far, I'm seeing no notable(measureable?)uptick in film use. Ilford will hang on. Fuji could axe film tomorrow and never twitch.

  10. #20
    Brian C. Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbromaghin View Post
    Fuji has made the transition to a right-sized film division
    Film sales for Fujifilm are 1% of its gross revenue. That is their "right size," i.e., just about being gone without being totally gone. I'm sure that Ilford's photographic product sales are a much larger slice of their gross revenue.

    Anybody remember when the CPP-3 was first posted on this board, some people thought that it could be a hoax? I welcome the news that it's really coming. Jobo thinks that there is a market for the new machine. I don't remember the last selling price of a CPP-2, but I do remember that those machines weren't cheap, either. The processor will sell because there is a market for it. In my state, nobody processes large format color film. Nobody. I send it out to Praust in Rochester, NY. They have a snappy turn-around and do a fine job, but I'd just like to do it here, and I mean locally and conveniently. The local labs have either not done a good job or else aren't convenient, at all. This year, so far, I've spent at least $800 on film, maybe more than $1000. So yeah, there's a few of us for whom this stuff is economical.

    Besides, a Nikon D800 definitely isn't in my future, not as long as I can buy film.

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