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  1. #11

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    It will be all those people who don't have a pro-lab nearby that want one. Or people like me whose CPP has started to disintegrate (just the electronics really) but couldn't contemplate moving away from expert drums. I'll be hoping that I can buy the head unit by itself since the bath and the lift still work fine.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by frotog View Post
    Sounds pretty slick, what with all the blue lights (used to be red) and the thing that goes beep (I'd probably turn it off). Oh, and how could I forget the programming of the sequence so I don't have to manually switch off the motor between baths?

    I bought my cpp-2 new back in the mid-nineties from calumet. I think I paid close to $1,300 for it. Sure, it has its wonky bits, like the lame, under-built lift handle... But its been almost twenty years and I've yet to replace circuitry or motors (I have a post 24xxxx serial number which evidently means it has the strong motor) and I routinely use my jobo with more than a litre of chem. The machine is robust! So much so that I wonder who will be buying the cpp3? Even with the ridiculous prices people are putting on used machines and replacement parts on the market, paying another $1,600 for the dubious upgrades of the cpp3 just does not make sense.
    1300$ 20 odd years ago is about 2300$ in current dollars (add to that small market, low production volume and Euro inflation). that aside, What of the upgrades are dubious? if anything they are a continuation of what you describe as a robust machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by frotog View Post
    Serious color photographers know that jobo results can't compete with what they get from their pro-lab. Most b/w film users who are deep enough into their hobby already have their jobos. So they must be counting on the lomo-wielding 20-something hipsters who've recently embraced film as a kind of lifestyle affectation.
    All you lomophiles prize evenly developed film, right?

    Probably not a good bet.
    Judging by the amount of interest this post has generated, and the amount of pre orders already in, even before photokina i am not sure it matters who is the exact target market segment.
    Serious color photographers in the US have found that over the last 5-8 years no "Pro lab" (if there is such a thing anymore anywhere) can compete with the results of their home processing\Jobo negatives. A 40 gallon deep tank machine that gets used once a day\once a week\once a month, will never be able to compete with the exact repeatability of a small, consistent low volume system.

    You are right though - many of the current film users are new to the field and have a different set of standards then those that once existed and are no more. It does not make anything less of them, if anything - they are doing something never done before - learning all from scratch, which means they can only grow and improve.
    CatLABS of JP
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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by frotog View Post
    Serious color photographers know that jobo results can't compete with what they get from their pro-lab.
    Actually completely the opposite - I get better results developing my own film with E6 but especially so with C41 where I avoid clip marks on my 4x5's and the related flow turbulence overdeveloping and colour shifts.

    Tim

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by timparkin View Post
    Actually completely the opposite - I get better results developing my own film with E6 but especially so with C41 where I avoid clip marks on my 4x5's and the related flow turbulence overdeveloping and colour shifts.

    Tim
    Coulden't agree more with tim - This is from personal experience as well as consumer based results.
    CatLABS of JP
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  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by krifartida View Post
    We (CatLABS) source parts, and supply service to Jobo machines and users through our direct connection to Jobo in Germany.
    Does this mean you will be carrying the CPP3 in the near future?

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by krifartida View Post
    Judging by the amount of interest this post has generated, and the amount of pre orders already in, even before photokina i am not sure it matters who is the exact target market segment.
    Serious color photographers in the US have found that over the last 5-8 years no "Pro lab" (if there is such a thing anymore anywhere) can compete with the results of their home processing\Jobo negatives. A 40 gallon deep tank machine that gets used once a day\once a week\once a month, will never be able to compete with the exact repeatability of a small, consistent low volume system.
    If you're already slammed with pre-orders then that is great news. I guess I should not have underestimated the lure of the Jobo brand and lore surrounding rotary processing.

    Don't get me wrong... I love my Jobo but only with certain b/w developers. I'm not into e-6 but with c-41 I performed extensive testing on keeping the process in control. I used kodak professional control strips and scientific method to observe potential weak points in the jobo process in regards to keeping c-41 in control. Temp. control and aerial oxidation were determined to be the two major culprits. Undoubtedly the development was incredibly even across the test 4x5's I made prints from but the process was not dead nuts in control and, making matters worse, there was variability between batches. I reported on these extensive tests here if you care to understand more of what I went through with jobo and c-41.... http://www.apug.org/forums/forum40/3...ults-jobo.html

    Considering the popularity of the jobo I was surprised by how few people responded to the thread. But then again, this might be evidence of how many Jobo users are running sensitometry tests on their color process.

    Yeah, believe it or not, there are still pro-labs dedicated to developing e6 and c41. I use LTI in nyc. Praus in Rochester is another that does careful work for a widening customer base, some of whom send their film from far away. Both these labs run control strips daily and never have a problem keeping it steadily in control, from one day to the next.

  7. #17
    Greg Davis's Avatar
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    I re-read that thread and agree you had a problem with your control strips, but I have also done extensive tests with C-41 and process control strips and with one exception where I used too much starter, I have never had a problem with being out of aim or control.
    www.gregorytdavis.com

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  8. #18

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    I will second Greg, and add that its not by chance that many of the control system devised by film, calibration and shooting system makers of the day used a Jobo to produce them. At the day, almost every pro studio had an in house Jobo unit, always on waiting to run a control before sheets and holders were sent off to pre press\production. In any case you do not need a photo sensitometer, or any other device for that matter to see how bad the negatives that come back from all three remaining pro labs in Boston really are, i suspect that is fairly close to the reality in most places.

    Not to mention - when you want to scan or use the ENTIRE negative, and your name is now eileen cowin, and you do not use a Jobo system, you always have punch marks, along with a blotch of higher density around it... :|
    CatLABS of JP
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  9. #19

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    I'm glad to hear that there have been a lot of pre-orders already. I hope that will encourage Jobo to make a US 115 volt version available soon. I will buy it when/if it becomes available. I also just want the main unit, as I have a spare CPP-2 trough and lift I would like to mount it in.


    I also just want to add that I get better E6 and C41 results out of my CPP-2 than I get from any lab in my area.

  10. #20
    largeformat pat's Avatar
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    Hey,
    As somebody said before, They have upgraded the motor and such. I brought my first CPP2 in 1983. I then brought another, humidity killed one board. I still have one to this day. It is like brand new, its only had one new pump, two new motors, a couple of reworks on the board and I made a handle to overcome the lift issue with 3000 drums. All jokes a side it is built well and is designed practically. I can only see the advances in electronics to be a blessing to the new machine. I would ensure you would have good ventilation to contribute to the longevity of the components. I will be getting one for sure.
    Pat
    What grain............................................. ...............
    Oh sorry, I forgot you don't shoot Large Format
    Large format Pat.

    http://www.largeformatpat.com

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