Ebay dispute can I damage a Jobo CPE2 by running the motor without water in the tank?
I bought a Jobo CPE2 on ebay:
When it arrived the spindle was not working so the drum would not change direction. I made a video to show the seller:
As it was listed to be in perfect working order, I have asked the seller for a refund.
This is his response:
I was suspicious of the video you sent yesterday of you using the machine that I sold to you.
It is written in big bold letters in the manual, DO NOT TURN ON THE UNIT WITHOUT WATER. The video you sent clearly show running it with no water. You will have destroyed
beyond repair the heaters thermostat. I cant repair this and no parts are available. With regards to the spindle I was
under the illusion that I might have made a mistake with the machine but clearly you did not read the manual at all that
was sent with the item.
The video you sent confirms that you used the unit without water so regardless of anything you have now damaged the item beyond repair. I cant and won't accept this back for a refund Paul. I am not a shop nor a mug.
Under no circumstances will I take the unit back for a full refund now that you have damaged it as proven by your very own video!
You should have read the manual before operating the machine.
To quote directly from the online Manual ( The same as sent to you )
"Note: Text in this format is informative. It contains additional details to explain the basic information presented.
Caution: Text in this format presents important procedural information. Failure to follow these instructions could adversely affect the processing of your film or paper.
WARNING: Text in this format presents critical information. Possible damage to your equipment or personal injury could result from not following these instructions!
Here is the link to the manual: http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_ana...he%20Processor
Here is the link to the video you sent, showing you using the machine with no water: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHKwU...eature=mh_lolz
I have downloaded a copy of you video to my home computer.
You cant use equipment like this without reading the manual. An expenisive lesson and one I am not willing to pay
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]- photograpicswapshop
Is this likely to be true? I did not run the motor for an extended period, and the thermostat was not turned on at any time.
I get the feeling that the seller is trying to pull a fast one.
Any advice would be helpful as I have opened a dispute on paypal.
Mamiya RZ67, Olympus OM1-n, Nikon F5
It looks like the seller is right, the water is needed to keep the heater from overheating.
The seller is wrong. In any case, if the heater would have over heated you would have noticed as the machine would have burned wires which you would have smelled and noticed, as the motor would not have turned any more.
In any case it is absolutely safe to run a CPE2 with the temp dial down all the way (you can hear the thermostat clicking on and of when you turn the dial, the point will change with ambient temp, but as long as it is beyond the position in which it clicks off, it is OFF...).
From your video, it seems as though the reversal arm (three fingered white plastic bit) is out of position. As far as i can see the drum revered direction as soon as you manually moved the reverse arm and clicked the micro switch.
This is very easy to remedy - the first thing to check is to tighten the screw of the revereser, so that it takes a bit more then light finger pressure to move (do not over tighten so it does not move at all). Then re position it with the middle prong level\horizintal, and run the motor, this should cure your problem. You might need to start with one of the other two prongs level if that does not work.
If all three positions did not help after re tightening the screw you will need to re position the reverser in relation to the micro switch actuator on the inside of the unit (this takes 1-2 minutes and involves removing and installing 6 screws). But check the first step and report back. I will help further if needed.
Pay no attention to Ebay sellers with bad attitude, you are in the right, and in any case your machine is 100% fine
Thanks all. I have raised a Paypal dispute so I will let them decide. I don't want to keep this machine without it arriving working. I just want to process my film!!! I should have checked the feedback before buying. 2 transactions suggests a new seller or at least a new username. So much for returns accepted lol!
Mamiya RZ67, Olympus OM1-n, Nikon F5
There is a circuit breaker on some models.
To reset it, have a look on the far left of the machine (looking at it front on). From memory, you need to poke something through a hole to press a small button. I'd suggest Googling it. Mind you, there is a chance that you've fried it and this will be moot.
I agree with the Seller, though - never run one dry with the heater on.
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Please read Kriffartida's post it is an easy fix. Put some water into the unit and switch it on again and see if the heater heats to the set temperature.
If that's ok tighten the screw on the 3 pronged arm, you may have to readjust it like you were doing in the video until you get the arm into the correct position.
Pm me if you want to talk more in detail.
+1 that it is an easy fix. It happened to me after a year of use.
Put some water in to check if the heating part is working properly and don't mind for the switch as it is very easy to fix it by your self. In the matter of fact this switch is called chicken leg and it is very easy to brake (yours is OK) so it is user replaceable...
The CPE2 does not have a heater protection circuit, only the CPE2+ has that feature.
The CPE2 hasn't a circuit breaker. If it is switched on with out water AND with a high temperature selected it can be damaged and can't be repaired by the user.
The CPE2 Plus has the temperature protection breaker (thermal overload sensor).
If it has been switched on for a short time it can be fine. Just test it with water.
The CPE2 has a little spindle with three "fingers" behind the rotor that senses the direction and changes it. It can be displaced, simply turn it half around and try the unit again (with water or the thermostat set to the lower temperature).
Bad luck. It is always disappointing to find an item faulty and buying from a seller who is only starting out so with little feedback can be risky but I suspect that we may have a case of two genuine parties( buyer and seller) who are unnecessarily suspicious of each others' actions
Common belief is that the CPE2 should not be used without water and this is correct. However unless you ran it for quite some time I doubt if it has been ruined. Certainly the fault would have manifested itself within less than a minute - maybe in much less than a minute as the reverse turn occurs within a few seconds or not in your case so I don't think you have ruined it.
If you got the CPE2 for the end bid price as hown on e-bay then this is fairly good value, given that the solution suggested by others works and I see no reason why it won't. Did you get the other bits and pieces shown as well?
Hopefully this transaction will end satisfactorily.