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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddie View Post
    While they may give you a measured standard of sharpness (or any other lens attribute), it's entirely possible that a "lesser" lens will give you a better print.
    You... can't... be... serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by jjphoto View Post
    As they say, opinions are like arse holes, everyone has one and every one else's stinks.

    There's a difference between an 'opinion' and an actual test comparison in controlled conditions. Such comparisons are very useful and are really all we've got aside from our own personal experience. If find comparisons, rather than objective tests (even with their graphs, facts and figures), to be far more useful however there will always be an element of sample variation to factor into any findings.
    I couldn't have said it more succinctly. Photography is just physics and chemistry. You manipulate the physics and chemistry to make art. You start from a commonly agreed upon baseline and then tweak to get what you want. That doesn't mean the baseline is useless. I really wonder how some people buy cars. I as well as everyone I know looks at the MPG sticker on the car window. Now I know depending on whether I drive in the city or on highways my mileage will vary. It will also vary with how aggressively I accelerate. Passenger and cargo load will make mileage vary. Heck using the A/C will change mileage as well. Does that mean we don't look at the manufacturer's mileage data? Does that mean we ignore what Consumer Reports and Motor Trend say about mileage? I think not. Why on earth would that all of a sudden change when talking about a simple $40 lens? There is nothing special about photography. The same common sense we use in the rest of our lives is not suspended when we pick up a camera or turn on an enlarger.

  2. #32

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    there IS more to photography than physics and chemistry

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    there IS more to photography than physics and chemistry
    A lot more. If photography were only a physics and chemistry matter, it would be utterly boring. Fortunately, the most important is creativity which can't be put in equation (or MTF tested).

    Take care.
    Last edited by Dali; 05-13-2013 at 03:17 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    "The problem with photography is that it only deals with appearances." Duane Michals

    "A photograph is a secret of a secret. The more it tells you the less you know." Diane Arbus

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    there IS more to photography than physics and chemistry
    For some types of photography you layer more on top of the basic physics and chemistry. But most of the "photographers" I've dealt with professionally (xray crystallographers, electron microscopers, radiologists, crime science investigators, etc) it's all physics and chemistry. Without wandering too far off into philosophy what I was getting at with that statement is there are certain objective noncontroversial things we can all agree upon.

  5. #35
    eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noble View Post
    You... can't... be... serious..
    I'm completely serious. There's a reason people work with Holgas, Petzvals, etc. A well conceived photograph is more than accomplishing the utmost in sharpness and resolution.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noble View Post
    For some types of photography you layer more on top of the basic physics and chemistry. But most of the "photographers" I've dealt with professionally (xray crystallographers, electron microscopers, radiologists, crime science investigators, etc) it's all physics and chemistry. Without wandering too far off into philosophy what I was getting at with that statement is there are certain objective noncontroversial things we can all agree upon.
    what's the point ?

    is it because there are so many great, contrasty,highly acclaimed by experts like ctein, perfect
    color corrected ... ( that used to cost hundreds of $$ ) but are cheap enlarger lenses readily available
    there is no point in wasting one's time or effort with anything else.

    to each their own ...
    Last edited by jnanian; 05-13-2013 at 03:09 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noble View Post
    You... can't... be... serious.
    .


    I loved my Holga, and I cherish my Certo Phot, and I'd seriously hurt anyone who tried to take my Brownie Hawkeyes - especially the one with the flipped lens.

    I know you, because I was you. You spout off information that you've gained from listening to someone else, and you're so focused on the technical aspects that you can't appreciate the art for what it is. And if anyone challenges your methods or equipment, you feel insulted and feel the need to defend it to the inth degree - which then leads to highly toxic threads and conversations, and that's not productive for anyone.

    I've given up my need for technically perfect gear and images, and what I've found is that my creativity has begun to flow freely again. When talking about instant photography, a friend once told me that "embracing the imperfections is part of the fun of instant photography." That resonated with me greatly, and today I always try to remember that no matter what I'm shooting.

    You prefer your $50 El Nikkor 2.8N - we get it. Can you please move on to something more productive?

  8. #38
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    OK, I wasn't going to say a high quality lens is important, but I can see where it might come in handy.

    I use a 135mm Xenar 4x5 enlarging lens you might say has a certain amount of "character" and I've been fine with it. I know it isn't APO type N or anything like that.

    But lately I have been unhappy that my enlargements don't match my contact prints. I can't stand it and my solution to the problem is that I'm not going to make any more contact prints.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Burk View Post
    OK, I wasn't going to say a high quality lens is important, but I can see where it might come in handy.

    I use a 135mm Xenar 4x5 enlarging lens you might say has a certain amount of "character" and I've been fine with it. I know it isn't APO type N or anything like that.

    But lately I have been unhappy that my enlargements don't match my contact prints. I can't stand it and my solution to the problem is that I'm not going to make any more contact prints.
    I think the xenar is not an enlarging lens in the first place so that won't help.

  10. #40
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjphoto View Post
    I think the xenar is not an enlarging lens in the first place so that won't help.
    This one is, but don't tell Armond at Freestyle who sold it to me in 1982, he'll want it back. I got it for a good price because it sat on the shelf for years, the aperture blades were out of their slots and my buddy Jim applied his employee discount.

    My point is that a great enlarging lens, will have less flare than the lens I use. I figure one of the main differences in appearance between my contact prints and enlargements might be from the flare I get from the enlarging lens -- reducing contrast. Nevermind the circle of confusion and viewing distance issues that mean I "get" less depth of field in an enlargement -- because an APO lens won't solve that difference.

    But an APO lens on the enlarger might help you match your contact prints more easily.

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