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  1. #1
    Nicole's Avatar
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    Developing Times & Compensation - please help

    Hi everyone

    As some of you know, I've only just recently taken the plunge into the darkroom and have a little problem I'd like to solve:

    Today I did a shoot at the beach before and during sunset and used AGFA APX400, for a change. I had all APX400 film but an APX100 snuck into my batch and so was exposed at 400ISO.

    Can I save my exposures on this roll somehow?
    How do I compensate in my developing time?

    This is what my new Rodinal Bottle instructions tell me:
    AGFApan APX100. ASA100.
    Rodinal 1+25 at 8 min.
    Rodinal 1+50 at 17 min.
    20°Celcius

    AGFApan APX400. ASA400.
    Rodinal 1+25 at 7 min.
    Rodinal 1+50 at 11 min.
    20°Celcius
    Agitation: Continuous agitation during first minute. Afterwards every 30 seconds.

    This is what my up-to-date College handout tells me:
    AGFA APX100. ASA100.
    Rodinal 1+100 at 20 min.
    20°Celcius

    AGFA APX400. ASA400.
    Rodinal 1+100 at 17 min.
    Continuous agitation! 24°Celcius

    AGFA APX400. ASA200.
    Rodinal 1+100 at 15 min.
    20°Celcius

    AGFA APX100. ASA100.
    D-76 1+1 at 13.5 min.
    20°Celcius

    AGFA APX400. ASA250-400.
    D-76 1+1 11 min.
    20°Celcius


    This is what the new AGFA film box instructions tell me:
    (Attention: New developing times!)
    AGFA APX100. ASA100.
    Rodinal 1+25 at 8 min.
    20°Celcius

    AGFA APX400. ASA400.
    Rodinal 1+25 at 10 min.
    20°Celcius
    Agitation: Continuous agitation during first minute. Afterwards every 30 seconds.

    I could do with some experience and guidance here. Thanks very much for your input!

    Kind regards,
    Nicole

  2. #2
    Donald Qualls's Avatar
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    The simple answer is that you need to push develop the stray APX 100 by two stops (which will not help the shadow detail much, but will at least bring the midtones into a reasonable range by way of increasing contrast). To do that, you'd generally develop for about twice the "normal" time for your film -- based on the information you posted above (I've never used either APX films or Rodinal), that would be either 16 minutes in Rodinal 1+25 (based on the APX box), 27 minutes in D-76 1+1, 40 minutes in Rodinal 1+100 (the latter, especially, might benefit by being increased to an hour with only one or two agitations over that time after the first minute -- longer time with less agitation will bring up the shadows more) based on your college handout, or 16/34 minutes with Rondinal 1+25/1+50 based on the Rodinal bottle.

    Of that lot, I'd be strongly inclined to go with either the D-76 1+1 or Rodinal 1+100, in either case reducing agitation and extending development even further (with D-76, I'd suggest agitation every 3 minutes and adding another 25% to development, for a total of about 34 minutes) to help out the highlights. You still won't get as much shadow detail as you will with the APX 400, but it'll be much better than with conventional push processing.
    Photography has always fascinated me -- as a child, simply for the magic of capturing an image onto glossy paper with a little box, but as an adult because of the unique juxtaposition of science and art -- the physics of optics, the mechanics of the camera, the chemistry of film and developer, alongside the art in seeing, composing, exposing, processing and printing.

  3. #3
    johnnywalker's Avatar
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    The massive development chart only takes it up to 200 with Rodinal and 100 with D-76. Personally I'd add 20 per cent on to the 200 time for Rodinal, but check out the site - possibly you'll find some other combinations that will work.

    http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html

    Good luck,
    If I had been present at the creation, I would have given some useful hints for the better arrangement of the Universe.
    Alfonso the Wise, 1221-1284

  4. #4
    BWGirl's Avatar
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    Hey Nicole!

    Here is a link to an article about push/pull processing. It might also give you a place to start.

    http://www3.telus.net/drkrm/push-pull.htm
    Jeanette
    .................................................. ................
    Isaiah 25:1

  5. #5
    rbarker's Avatar
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    Although shooting ISO 100 film at 400 sounds terrible, it's only a two stop under-exposure. Depending on lighting and other variables, you might get away with developing "normally" and not notice too much difference.

    The Massive Dev Chart suggests 11 minutes at 20° C for Rodinal 1+25 for APX100 shot at ISO 200, or 8 minutes for it being shot at 100 - a 37% increase in time for the 1-stop difference. I think I'd try the 11 minutes, splitting the difference if the work is not highly critical. If it's very crucial, I'd suggest shooting another test roll at 400, and experiment with the test roll first.

    One of the resident Rodinal experts may have better suggestions, though.
    [COLOR=SlateGray]"You can't depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus." -Mark Twain[/COLOR]

    Ralph Barker
    Rio Rancho, NM

  6. #6
    Lee L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Qualls
    Of that lot, I'd be strongly inclined to go with either the D-76 1+1 or Rodinal 1+100, in either case reducing agitation and extending development even further (with D-76, I'd suggest agitation every 3 minutes and adding another 25% to development, for a total of about 34 minutes) to help out the highlights. You still won't get as much shadow detail as you will with the APX 400, but it'll be much better than with conventional push processing.
    I wouldn't recommend Rodinal 1:100 for push processing. As you increase dilution with Rodinal and standard agitation (I haven't tried stand development for pushing with Rodinal), the film speed tends to drop. Most slow films are at half box speed with Rodinal 1:100, and you'd be giving up shadow detail in an already underexposed negative.

    There are some recommendations for APX-100 at EI 400 in Xtol and some other developers on the massive development chart at digitaltruth.com. The highest speed there for Rodinal is EI 200 in a 1:25 dilution. HC110 is also listed there with higher speeds. I'd suspect that Xtol gives the highest natural E.I.

    Lee

  7. #7
    kaiyen's Avatar
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    I thought that diluting accutance developers resulted in an effective increase in film speed?

    ahhhh! getting confused again.
    allan

  8. #8
    Kevin Caulfield's Avatar
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    Regarding the processing time for the APX400, if the box gives you the new times then you must have the new film. Agfa changed their APX400 a year or two ago. So you need 10 minutes at 1:25 as opposed to the old 7 minutes at 1:25 in Rodinal.

    Regarding the unintentional push of the APX100 to ISO400, as mentioned above it's only a two-stop push. As a rule of thumb you should increase development by a third for every one-stop push. I would probably push it just the one stop, i.e. add a third to the development time, and you should get reasonable results.

    Hope this helps.

  9. #9

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    How important is it? If important, reshoot another roll in similar conditions and try it 1st. Cut off a 30cm or so piece and soup that, then adjust if needed and try another 30cm piece, that way you can dial it in without wasting complete rolls of film. Have you used APX400 in Rodinal before? Not a combination I'd care for from my limited experience of it. If it's real important, reshoot a roll, get some Microphen, XTOL or DD-X and do the snip test. If it's not important but you really would like something decent, don't use Rodinal... if you don't care, use Rodinal but not too diluted, and add a little bit of time to the development, I'd go with Kevins thought of 1/3 extra at most. Easyier to add some contrast in printing than trying to tame something grossly over-developed. I do use Rodinal 1:100 (18-20mins @ 20C) but film speed is greatly reduced as mentioned above.

  10. #10
    Nicole's Avatar
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    I think I'll get some XTOL and give that a try as I have heard it's fantastic and I'd prefer a finer grain. At the same time I"ll develop a roll in Rodinal and see what the differences are. Thank you all so much for your input! Kind regards, Nicole

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