Need Help Repairing a Solenoid Wing-Lynch
I have a Wing-lynch. It eats solenoids. The solenoids open and close to allow chemistry, water or waste through the system. The solenoids dedicated to the chemistry are of one type ( a type have that I have a small inventory of) the solenoid that allows the water to come through is of another type.
I have recently moved and am now just setting the processor up again. The only chemistry solenoid that has not been replaced has died as well as the water inlet selinoid.
I was wondering if anyone out there knows how to rebuild or recover a solenoid. Pictures can be provided if needed.
Last edited by mrcallow; 05-08-2005 at 09:09 AM. Click to view previous post history.
If you can provide me photographs of your solenoids perhaps I may be able to direct you toward replacements or a work around. If you wish, you many send them to my email address.
Originally Posted by mrcallow
Beautiful! I am putting in the drain at the moment so it may be a day or so before I can pull it out and shoot it. I will shoot both types, as I am sure that the chem versions will go eventually and my inventory run dry.
Originally Posted by Donald Miller
Well, my polaroid 545 took its last breath trying to cough-up the shot of the solenoid (see attached). It is not my week/month/year/life for equipment...
I talked to an engineer friend about rebuilding/repairing these devices. He told me that they are eminently repairable and that where he comes from (eastern europe) it is common practice. Generally it requires re winding the wire. I was rather hoping it was something that could be done simply - say with a small hammer and some gasoline.
FWIW the Solenoids are produced by Norgren Kip Inc. The more common of the two (chem solenoid) is labeled Valve # 2x333, Orifice (love that word) 3/32 x 1/8 and is a 'Standard' 2-way directional valve. The less common (water inlet solenoid) is labeled Valve #2x6 O A, Orifice (ewww!) 1/8x5/64 and is a 'standard' 3-way directional valve. This information is provided should anyone have one of these puppies hanging around the house.
I can not determine from your photograph the physical characteristics of the valve itself ...typically complete solonoid valves are the metal mechanical valve assembly and then a coil assembly that actuates it. What I draw by inference from what you say is that you are dealing only with the coil assembly.
Now solonoid valves are typically purchased off the shelf from a valve manufacturer...it is highly unlikely that Wing Lynch designed and built their own valves.
One of the sources for replacement valves that I would check would be WW Grainger...they will have stores in major cities and also have a online catalog. They may or may not have coils that will mount on your valves. If they don't then I would look to replacing the whole valve assembly. In order to do that you will need to remove the valve completely (not just the coil) and take the valve that you have removed to a wholesaler such as WW Grainger. They will be able to cross reference to a replacement valve.
The characteristics of a valve are these...
Line connnection size...For example this would be 1/8 inch or 1/4 inch Female Pipe Thread...or some larger size.
Valve operating manner...Normally open or normally closed....this is without power being applied to the coil
Coil Voltage...This would typically be 24 volt, 115 volt, or 230 volt AC..it would be possible to have 12 Volt or 24 Volt DC but normally a manufacturer such as Wing Lynch would not have gone to the expense of converting an AC incoming power supply to DC for valve operation.
Valve material...Brass or Stainless Steel. For your applications where photo chemicals are involved opt for stainless steel valve construction.
If you are having frequent coil failures something could be causing this...it is unlikely to have coil failures unless a mechanical factor is influencing these failures. This could be a valve that is sticking in one position, improper voltage being applied to the coil or something of this nature.
If you are unable to locate what you need then there are other solonoid valve manufacturers. Some of these are Asco and Parker Hannefin. A Google search should be able to locate a distributor in your area.
Let me know if I can give you further help. I have worked with this stuff for over 40 years.
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Donald, I was dropped on my head (often) as a child. There is a Grainger branch about 3 miles from me. I'll check them out and if all else fails order the parts from Ross/Wing-Lynch.
I appreciate your help.
I am dealing with the whole piece, coil and valve. My assumption is that the coil is what is going on these things and that the cause is corrosion. The Wing-lynch I own is 20+ years old and the solenoids exhibit corrosion on the exterior when they go and the latest fatality shows corrosion on the interior (valve area) --This was the first one I opened up.
I have yet to replace a solenoid twice in the 2 years I have owned this thing, but the replacement solenoids are also used so I anticipates failure of the replacements.
The devices appeared simple and therefore I thought that there may be a simple way inwhich I could repair them. WL wants 80.00 a piece for the chem solenoids. Which is 80.00 more than I paid for the processor and over twice what similar parts cost off the shelf.
You might also try Johnstone supply. They do a lot of HVAC supplies and my have similar valves.
Hey--do you have the manual? For a model 4 or 4E, there's a part of the manual that describes how to do a simple diagnostic test on the solenoids and the conditions that would cause them to not work properly...they say that sometimes a "weak electrical signal can create a small magnetic field that can be sensed with a paper clip"--which they outline how to do--"...but which is inadequate to activate the solenoid valve. Typically this situation occurs when a valve is stuck or the processor is operating on either a battery which is excessively discharged or an AC power line voltage which is below specified minimum."
they specify 12 volt DC solenoids used throughout the machine. They describe how to use a small steel object like a paper clip to test the magnetic field around the solenoid, and they talk about the conditions for which each solenoid would be operating properly. When the solenoid is energized, the magnetic attraction can be sensed. There's a diagram of the guts of the machine and they specify the point where you can do this test on a solenoid. they also mention that the valves will be energized when the tanks are pumping and the step tone is turned up. "The dump solenoid valve should be energized whenever both the power switch is on and the dump light on the control panel is unlit (dump valve is closed)"
I don't think we've ever had that problem on our 4E, but we have had to replace that backup battery about every year or so. The backup battery is on all the time and if you don't run the machine enough, it drains out even faster--it recharges as the thing is used. I'm not the guy who usually works on that processor so I can't be of much help beyond this. You can get those parts for the machine though for a heck of a lot cheaper from other supply houses if you can figure out what the part is....if you want a copy of these 3 pages of the manual, let me know & I can send it to ya....WL can probably help you with this if you ask, if not you can get support sometimes from shops that rebuild Kreonites. Our machine is actually a Kreonite Rotary Processor--it's a 4E disguised as a Kreonite.
I will check Johnstone, Grainger didn't have it, but will be doing a search and get back to me.
I have the 4E manual and have run the test they recommend, I also checked that enough power was getting to the solenoid at the proper point during the operation.
BTW My backup battery is dead, but I don't care because it does not seem to effect with the normal operation of the device.
Thanks for all of your help. I will continue the search, and, as I said, if all else fails I'll buy direct...
If I were a little less cheap/broke I would be on a first name basis with the folks at WL.
the battery--yeah it'll run without the battery just fine--found out about that the hard way...had a power failure in the middle of a run of film and lost the entire batch....the battery was about two years old in the machine and was dead. our kreonite guy told us the battery was about 200 bucks from WL, but he told us the spec's for the replacement and sent us to Batteries Plus where we got one for about 50 bucks. same goes for the tank seals and gaskets and stuff like that in the machine. you get a set of tank caps and seals and it's like 80 bucks or something, for something you can get for less than 5 bucks from a plumbing supply shop. There's a problem with this though---the tank caps are just cpvc caps, but the nut part on top is too small on the replacements from both WL and the plumbing vendors--seems nobody has the right part anymore.They didn't use to be this way--the tops were larger and sealed the gaskets better. we even tried making a sintra "washer" of sorts, but had mixed results. You can't hardly get the tube sets, trough dams or seals anymore either.
I agree the parts are expensive, but compared to a roller transport machine, the parts are pretty cheap....plus it sounds like you got it for free. We paid almost 7K for a rebuilt model, and a new one is about 19,000...the model 5 is a much better processor though. I think we'll probably get one someday to replace the 4E, because it's a more efficient design in terms of process control for E6, and uses much less water to run.