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  1. #1
    Denis P.'s Avatar
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    5x7 film processing (JOBO with print drum)?

    It was just a few months ago that I jumped into LF - with a 4x5 Speed Graphic.
    In the meantime, I decided that even bigger negs would be nice for contact printing, so I moved to 5x7 format. After some tinkering and woodworking, now I have a camera and back ready, and a box of 5x7 Efke PL100.

    However, I forgot that I can't develop 5x7 sheets in the same JOBO drum I have for 4x5

    I checked the options, and since Expert drums are out of my reach (and wouldn't even fit on my old Jobo CPE processor), I thought about using the existing larger drums I have: a 4531 (print drum with magnet only and "ordinary" lid) or a 2553 (film drum with cog lid).

    I also found an interesting DIY solution (as always ): see HERE.
    It works with the same drum I have - but I'd like to use it on my processor.

    So, the print drum would be nice, except I can't use it on my CPE processor, since I don't have a lid with a cog for it (see attached photo) - meaning I can't rotate it on my processor.

    Anyone have idea what I need to use the 4531 drum on the processor? I guess I need a lid with a cog - but the lid from my other tank (2553) doesn't fit!!!
    The print drum seems to have a slightly smaller diameter, and the lid won't "catch"...

    I guess another solution would be to use the same DIY "film sheath" from the above link in the other drum (2553) - I'd have to make a somewhat smaller "sheath" (since that film drum is slightly shorter), but the system would be more or less the same, right?

    I'd like to use the JOBO processor, since I already have it, and the rotary tank processing uses significantly less chemicals than trays, Combi Plan tanks, etc. - and I try to avoid tray processing due to danger of scratches....

    Any ideas? Suggestions?

    TIA,

    Denis
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails jobo-print-drum.JPG  

  2. #2
    Ole
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    Four sheets at a time in a 2830 print drum works just fine. Just remember to have the emulsion in - backside towards the wall of the drum (sigh).

    You'll need the llittle winged spacer thingies, but not the film sheath - at least I haven't misse not having one?

    Before you ask, I've developed EKFE, Ilford, AGFA, Tasma, and Kodak film this way, both B&W and E6; both 5x7" and 13x18cm. And 18x24cm and 24x30cm. I scr*wed up one APX100 and one Ektackrome, but that was through putting them the wrong way (see above).
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  3. #3
    Denis P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole

    Before you ask, I've developed EKFE, Ilford, AGFA, Tasma, and Kodak film this way, both B&W and E6; both 5x7" and 13x18cm. And 18x24cm and 24x30cm. I scr*wed up one APX100 and one Ektackrome, but that was through putting them the wrong way (see above).
    You process those in the drum on the processor? Does that mean that your print drum has the lid with cog?

    Mine doesn't - that's the problem. And I can't use the lid with cog from the other (film) drum, since the diameter is apparently not the same

    I guess I'll try to use the "film sheath" thingy in the film drum - since that one doesn't have any ribs on the inside of the drum....

    Basically, it's a variation of the "taco" method - sans rubber band. The film is inserted on the "sheath" (which has ridges on the edges), and the sheath is inserted in the drum....

    We'll see... I need to get hold of the air dryer to make the "bubbles" on the sheath, so that the film doesn't stick to it....

    Denis

  4. #4
    Ole
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    Denis, I don't even have the lift. But it should be easy to find a cog lid for the print drum.

    Oddly enough my 2521 film drum has exactly the same lid, and ribs on the inside...
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  5. #5

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    I think Denis has an old style print drum that's why the lid doesn't fit. Current 28xx and 25xx type drums are almost 100% the same. The 28xx print drums have the ribs to hold paper in place. The lid includes a cup to hold the chemicals. The 25xx tanks have a tube to complete the light trap and the lid has a funnel.

    Keep an eye out for a 2830 tank.

    Ole does your 2521 actually say 2521 on the outside? I've never seen a film tank with ribs.

  6. #6
    Denis P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole
    Denis, I don't even have the lift. But it should be easy to find a cog lid for the print drum.

    Oddly enough my 2521 film drum has exactly the same lid, and ribs on the inside...
    As for the 2521 drum - if it has the cog lid, it's actually 2523 - in Jobo nomenclature the final (fourth) digit marks the type of lid - "1" stands for "ordinary" lid, and "3" stands for cog lid, meant for rotary processors with lift...

    I also have the small 2553 drum - but it's too small to fit 5x7 sheet in there! It works quite nice for 4x5 sheets (for which it was designed, I guess). You can process 4x5 (9x12) sheet film in it with or without the LF reel - I did it both ways (see my older post about 4x5 processing in JOBO)....

    Finally, here's a quick shot that shows all 3 drums I have - from left to right:

    1) 4531 PRINT drum (with "ordinary" lid)

    2) 2551 (actually 2553, since it has the cog lid) FILM drum

    3) 2523 small drum for 4x5 sheet film (with cog lid).

    The 4531 print drum is obviously an older series, since the cog lid from the other two doesn't fit. There is probably some extension/adapter to make it use those lids.
    Back to German ebay!

    Denis
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Jobo_3drums.JPG  

  7. #7
    Denis P.'s Avatar
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    DIY solution, as always :)

    Well, I couldn't wait to get a proper Jobo drum, so I followed the instructions from the link mentioned in my first mail (see LINK).

    The only modification is that I made such an insert for a smaller FILM drum (Jobo 2551/2553), so that I can use it on my Jobo processor with lift.

    The film adapter/sheath is done, now I just have to do a test run. It can accommodate only 3 5x7 sheets, bit it's better than nothing

    The attached photos show how it looks like - no big deal, really. It's a piece of PET plastic sheet I got in a local "Home Depot" equivalent, probably used in construction. Later I realized I could have used a large PET (plastic) Coke bottle (2 litre) or something similar, as long as the bottle is regular cylindrical shape...

    Anyway, using a hot air blower (the one used for stripping paint) I made relatively regularly spaced "dimples" to avoid film sticking to the plastic sheet, and to allow for anti-halation dye to be washed out in the prewash.

    I added a few plastic rivets/studs to keep the sheets from overlapping. Anyway, it's all visilbe in the photos.

    I'll let you know how the negs turned out. I don't expect much from the final shots, since today I exposed my first two 5x7 negs in a "new" camera (my "Chinadorff" ), using a Packard shutter for the first time. So, the exposure was probably not quite right, but those two will do for a test of this developing solution. I just need to see if the development wil be even, without streaks, etc.

    The photos are attached.

    Denis
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 5x7-insert_-01.JPG   5x7-insert_-02.JPG   5x7-insert_-03.JPG   5x7-insert_-04.JPG  

  8. #8
    Curt's Avatar
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    Hi Denis,

    How did the sheet film in tank construction work out? Was the development even without streaks?

    Regards,
    Curt

  9. #9
    Denis P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt
    Hi Denis,

    How did the sheet film in tank construction work out? Was the development even without streaks?

    Regards,
    Curt
    Curt,

    The development in the assembly pictured above worked out fine - no streaks, development was even.

    However, one of the plastic "holding pins" left a mark on the negative.
    It can be taken care of by reducing the diameter of the head of that plastic pin, but I didn't do much about it, since a few days ago I got a "proper" Jobo print drum - 2840, which will enable me to develop 4 5x7 sheets at the same time.

    My DIY solution above definitely works, but lets me soup only 3 sheets at a time, which is not very practical

    Anyway, attached is a scan of the negative developed in it, with the arrow pointing to the only problem I found. Like I said, it could be solved by reducing the diameter of the plastic retaining pin, so it would not intrude into the image area.

    Scan is rather poor - the negative was scanned as a positive, and then inverted...

    Denis
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 02-sm.jpg  

  10. #10
    John_Brewer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Zentena
    I think Denis has an old style print drum that's why the lid doesn't fit. Current 28xx and 25xx type drums are almost 100% the same. The 28xx print drums have the ribs to hold paper in place. The lid includes a cup to hold the chemicals. The 25xx tanks have a tube to complete the light trap and the lid has a funnel.

    Keep an eye out for a 2830 tank.

    Ole does your 2521 actually say 2521 on the outside? I've never seen a film tank with ribs.
    You can of course unscrew the the cups and funnels if need be. I've managed to develop 5x4 film in the 15xx tanks by swapping the funnel for the cup. All my 5x7 and 8x10 I do in a 2830 too.

    Nick, my 2521 has ribs inside and says 2521 outside. I think Jobo may have used the bottom parts of 2840 print drums as these are identical in size to 2521.

    Denis, cogs and bits are availabe here http://www.firstcall-photographic.co...rocessing.html

    I made a CPE2 pdf manual, 108 pages from the Jobo website. If anyone wants a copy (1.52mb) just email me.

    J
    ~John~
    --------------------------
    www.johnbrewerphotography.com
    There are 10 types of people in this world - those who understand binary and those who don't.

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