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  1. #11
    Dave Parker's Avatar
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    Have your consulted with your local building dept, they often times will have engineers on staff that help with this type of question on how to engineer correctly for several different uses, also it sounds like a project of this size would require a building permit and possibly an on site inspection...I know none of us like government intervention, but in this case is sounds like it could be a good thing.

    Dave

  2. #12
    Shinnya's Avatar
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    Dave,

    I do have a building permit and all those paper work done already. I spent 8 months with the city on that a year before.

    In fact, I did have an architect for this project as well. Though I am not quite happy with the service after all... That is a part of the problem. I also had a contractor but had to let him go... That is why I became a contractor by necessity for the last two years.

    Right now, I am running the construction site with a couple of crews and some sub-contractors. My carpenter cannot join us for another week or so. That is why I am about to start it by myself.

    Thanks for your suggestion though.

    Warmly,
    Tsuyoshi


    Quote Originally Posted by Satinsnow
    Have your consulted with your local building dept, they often times will have engineers on staff that help with this type of question on how to engineer correctly for several different uses, also it sounds like a project of this size would require a building permit and possibly an on site inspection...I know none of us like government intervention, but in this case is sounds like it could be a good thing.

    Dave
    ----- P R O J E C T B A S H O -----
    Re-introducing Photography to Philadelphia
    Summer '11 Photography Workshops

  3. #13
    noseoil's Avatar
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    Tsuyoshi, sounds like quite a project. There is a plastic foam material we provide for our framers, which comes in rolls cut into 3 1/2" or 5 1/2" strips. It lays between the bottom plate and the floor surface (in your case, the existing deck). It would help to make a good seal, reduce sound transmission and vibrations. The advice about hanging the AC unit and ceiling by wires is a good one. This would certainly help to stiffen the lid on the room. Wherever possible, put in enough wires to distribute the loads over more than one member. This will spread out the load and give things a more even strain in general.

    Just by way of information, a bearing wall is a wall which supports the structure of a building. It is designed to carry a load from one part of the building down into the foundation. Since you are just putting in partition walls, there really isn't much of a load which you would need to be concerned with, other than the cosmetic, light and mechanical items which will hang directly from the ceiling (as has been mentioned, lights, fans, ducts, sheet rock, insulation, etc.)

    At work we build roof trusses. One important consideration we have to watch in the design process is the direction and amount of load which travels through our roof system to walls and into the foundation. A job I looked at today has a 40' long girder truss which carries a 7,400 pound concentrated load (another girder truss) at its center, sits on top of a framed wall, and pushes down on the floor (and I hope not through, the floor). This is a case where we hope the foundation was designed properly, steel was placed properly and walls are framed in the correct manner. A building is a system, in which all parts work in harmony. Best, tim

  4. #14
    Shinnya's Avatar
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    Tim,

    Thank you for your encouragement.

    I got into this project precisely because I did not know what a project like this actually entails. I just simply wanted to have a space where people who are interested in photography can learn and practice. I had no practical consideration other than paying the mortgage!

    But I have finished the 2nd floor which is an apartment part so far. I literally did not know anything about the construction when I started this project. I did not speak the language of builders at all, not to mention that English is not my language. With help of others, I have managed to come this far though admittedly it took a much longer time. We will see how the rest will go.

    So a member means a "joist"? My floor is concrete slab of 4-5". The building is only 20' wide but 150' deep. It is still massive for me.

    Warmly,
    Tsuyoshi
    ----- P R O J E C T B A S H O -----
    Re-introducing Photography to Philadelphia
    Summer '11 Photography Workshops

  5. #15

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    Hello Tsuyoshi,

    Attached is a quick representation of a simple ceiling framing solution. The view is from above. The wall studs are gray, the ceiling framing members are red and the bracing/suspension system are in yellow. I hope the illustration is clear.

    Bob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Darkroom Framing.JPG  

  6. #16
    Shinnya's Avatar
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    Bob,

    This is great! Thanks for the clarification though.

    I am not sure if you have seen 3d model or not, but I would like to leave to space between ceiling of the floor and room rather open. It is a way to make the space bigger that what it is.

    I am going to simply frame the ceiling on top of the wall studs. Anyhow, this is the drawing that I came up with so far. I am doing it on computer now... All the doors are missing from is as of now.

    http://www.projectbasho.org/1305G/drawing01_ap06.gif

    Thanks for your time and expertise. I really appreciate it.

    Warmly,
    Tsuyoshi




    Quote Originally Posted by RGyori
    Hello Tsuyoshi,

    Attached is a quick representation of a simple ceiling framing solution. The view is from above. The wall studs are gray, the ceiling framing members are red and the bracing/suspension system are in yellow. I hope the illustration is clear.

    Bob
    ----- P R O J E C T B A S H O -----
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  7. #17
    resummerfield's Avatar
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    Hello Tsuyoshi,

    If I understand your drawing correctly, you are planning to span the ceiling across the sinks (left to right) with 26 ga 2x4 studs, which would be an unsupported span (between the sink and counter top) of about 10 feet (on each side). I understood Bob to say that a 2x4 “C” stud will not carry a ceiling load (drywall, lights, etc) and span a 10 foot horizontal space without a support in mid-span, either from below (a post, which you do not want), or from above (a wire or hanger as Bob suggested). I agree with Bob, but in reading your subsequent posts I fear that you may not have fully understood him.
    —Eric

  8. #18
    Shinnya's Avatar
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    Eric,

    Now since you spelled it out that I did not understand what Bob said in the first place, I think I understand what Bob was saying about the framing of ceiling.

    He is saying that I need at least 2x6" to frame the ceiling if unsupported ceiling span is 10' from over sink to countertop in each room. Am I understanding it right now?

    I suppose I could hang the ceiling since this is a temporary space anyhow. Then, I do not have to order 2x6 studs now... Never thought of that.

    I just do not use the language of builders/architects, so "depth" that Bob was referring did not quite register with what is in my head...

    I will try to take pictures of the space soon. Thanks again.

    Warmly,
    Tsuyoshi



    Quote Originally Posted by resummerfield
    Hello Tsuyoshi,

    If I understand your drawing correctly, you are planning to span the ceiling across the sinks (left to right) with 26 ga 2x4 studs, which would be an unsupported span (between the sink and counter top) of about 10 feet (on each side). I understood Bob to say that a 2x4 “C” stud will not carry a ceiling load (drywall, lights, etc) and span a 10 foot horizontal space without a support in mid-span, either from below (a post, which you do not want), or from above (a wire or hanger as Bob suggested). I agree with Bob, but in reading your subsequent posts I fear that you may not have fully understood him.
    ----- P R O J E C T B A S H O -----
    Re-introducing Photography to Philadelphia
    Summer '11 Photography Workshops

  9. #19
    noseoil's Avatar
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    "So a member means a "joist"... yes, but it could be any part of the building. A lot of its meaning is due to the context in which it is used. tim

    P.S. Your command of language is very good. It is difficult to communicate in a "foreign language" that being construction.

  10. #20
    Shinnya's Avatar
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    Bob,

    Now I think understand your original post, I can think though your suggestion.

    The suspension is great since I can use the 2x4 that I already have. The only problem is that I have to frame the entire ceiling of the floor to create a firewall. Since upstairs is residential unit while downstairs is commercial, this is what I have to do.

    So, I would assume that I have to use 2x6 studs to frame the ceiling of the darkroom. What gauge can I use for 2x6 if the span is 10'?

    Thanks again everyone.

    Warmly,
    Tsuyoshi

    Quote Originally Posted by RGyori
    Hello Tsuyoshi,

    Attached is a quick representation of a simple ceiling framing solution. The view is from above. The wall studs are gray, the ceiling framing members are red and the bracing/suspension system are in yellow. I hope the illustration is clear.

    Bob
    ----- P R O J E C T B A S H O -----
    Re-introducing Photography to Philadelphia
    Summer '11 Photography Workshops

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