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  1. #1

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    Question for Jobo CPP-2 owners

    Hello,
    I am using a Jobo CPP-2, and I am just starting to process E-6. My first roll came out quite dark, but with otherwise good color. I suspect that my first developer and other steps might have been at too low of a temperature.

    I suspect that this might be because of the level of water in the tempering bath. Though the processor will hold the water at a steady 38C, the water level only comes about halfway up the bottles. If I try to fill it any more, the drainage outlet starts draining and I am back to where it started. Is it normal for the water level to be that low? In the manual they say it should be up to the shoulders of the bottles, but on mine the max is about 2/3rds the way to the shoulders. It seems like this would make the tempering bath kind of useless, since it is only warming the bottom parts of the bottles and graduates.

    Has anyone else had this issue? And if I stopper the drainage pipe and fill it up to the point that the bottles are properly covered, do I risk damaging anything? I can always make another warming bath in a tray next to the processor, but that kind of defeats the point of paying all the cash for a processor that is supposed to be accurate to .1 degree!

  2. #2
    jeroldharter's Avatar
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    That is how it is supposed to work. Don't overfill the unit.

    Put a thermometer in the developer bottle before you start to verify that the temp of the developer has in fact tempered and is the same as the water bath. I fill my CPP2 with water the night before and flip it on as soon as I wake up. By the time I have had breakfast and get back in the darkroom, everything is tempered and ready to go.
    Jerold Harter MD

  3. #3

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    I follow Jerold's routine as well. There is no need to fill the reservoir higher. Given time, the solutions will come to temperature. In the warmer climes ( although one would not know that Florida is any warmer this year! ) from March through Christmas, the problem is one of adding ice to the reservoir in order to lower the temperature of the water in the reservoir. However, the same routine as outlined by Jerrold can be easily followed....lower the temperature in the reservoir to BELOW the desired temperature using ice, and then wait for the heater to bring the temperature UP to the correct temperature. The short time that it takes to develop film, and the large volume of water in the reservoir, assures one that the temperature will rarely increase much above a few tenths of a degree in the reservoir. Once the film is developed, a degree or two change in temperature in the reservoir is completely irrelevant because the slight increase of temperature in the stop, fixer, and wash are not significant for black and white processing. For E6 one might want to have some warm and cold water available to add to the wash as needed in order to temper the temperature fluctuations in the reservoir. I have not developed E6 film, and hence I will defer to Jerrold and others regarding E6 and maintaining temperatures in the bath. However, doesn't the CPP have an inflow valve that will draw water in from the tap in order to keep the temperature stable?

    There simply isn't a better or more consistent way, IMO, to develop film-especially LF sheets.

    Ed

  4. #4
    wildbill's Avatar
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    Stuart, I started with my temp set @38 as well but learned quickly that the chems don't get that warm and stay that warm once you pour them through the lift's funnel where they are also then exposed to the temp of the drum. I set my machine at 38.7 instead. Perfect e-6 results. There are other variables which may be at play here like water quality, age of chemicals, drum speed. I'm assuming you've got those under control.
    www.vinnywalsh.com

    I know what I want but I just don't know how to go about gettin' it.-Hendrix

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    If I try to fill it any more, the drainage outlet starts draining
    Not sure I understand this. Do you mean that you're leaving the drainage spigot - in the bottom middle of the end of the unit, on the end with the controls - open?

  6. #6
    jeroldharter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    Not sure I understand this. Do you mean that you're leaving the drainage spigot - in the bottom middle of the end of the unit, on the end with the controls - open?
    There is an overflow outlet up high on the back of the unit so it can't be overfilled. If you set it up to take incoming cold water, or add water manually, this prevents overflow.
    Jerold Harter MD

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeroldharter View Post
    There is an overflow outlet up high on the back of the unit so it can't be overfilled. If you set it up to take incoming cold water, or add water manually, this prevents overflow.
    Thanks, Jerold. Is this CPP-2 only? I can fill my CPA-2 as far as I want.

  8. #8
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Did you use a prewet to condition the equipment to 38 deg C? If so, this should bring the temps up. Also, if you used a prewet, did you drain well to prevent dilution of the first developer with water from the prewet? This dilution factor can hurt a lot.

    In addition, did you use the times for the First Developer in a Jobo suggested by Kodak and Fuji for their films? They do differ between company brands and with the type of process.

    PE

  9. #9

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    Stuart,

    What is your room temperature? With moderate continuos heat at this time of year, my darkroom sits at about 14-17ºC, so I boost the room temperature to 18-20ºC to make processes work within specification. A warmer room temperature may reduce the temperature drop during elevated temp. Jobo processing.

    Tom

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Hello,
    I am using a Jobo CPP-2, and I am just starting to process E-6. My first roll came out quite dark, but with otherwise good color. I suspect that my first developer and other steps might have been at too low of a temperature.

    I suspect that this might be because of the level of water in the tempering bath. Though the processor will hold the water at a steady 38C, the water level only comes about halfway up the bottles. If I try to fill it any more, the drainage outlet starts draining and I am back to where it started. Is it normal for the water level to be that low? In the manual they say it should be up to the shoulders of the bottles, but on mine the max is about 2/3rds the way to the shoulders. It seems like this would make the tempering bath kind of useless, since it is only warming the bottom parts of the bottles and graduates.

    Has anyone else had this issue? And if I stopper the drainage pipe and fill it up to the point that the bottles are properly covered, do I risk damaging anything? I can always make another warming bath in a tray next to the processor, but that kind of defeats the point of paying all the cash for a processor that is supposed to be accurate to .1 degree!

  10. #10
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    I don't quite understand the level of water in the tempering bath ...

    "Up to the `shoulders' of the bottles" seems appropriate ... I have *no* trouble holding that ... If you can't fill to that height; there has to be some sort of drainage somewhere. In operation, the rotating developing tank should have its lower 10% - 20% sloshing through the tempering bath - that should be sufficient to maintain the required temperature in the developing tank. If you can only get the fill level halfway up the bottles, you must not have any tank contact... ?

    JOBO sets the bath temperature a degree or so above the LED readout to compensate for losses in operation. Can't prove it by me - I have *no* idea of a way to measure the temperature in the tank during rotation.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

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