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Thread: Cold lite?

  1. #41
    Wade D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht View Post
    Sorry for hi-jacking the thread again.
    I did not mean to sound as if I was picking on you or anyone else for the length of the thread. It has been very informative to someone like me who has never tried anything but condensers. Would a piece of opal glass above my condensers qualify as a diffusion source? It would be interesting to try it out.

  2. #42
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade D View Post
    Would a piece of opal glass above my condensers qualify as a diffusion source? It would be interesting to try it out.
    I've heard in the past of people doing this. I've never tried it, so I can't say one way or the other. But it would seem to pass the common sense test if the collimated light above it was evenly distributed.

    Maybe when Ralph reads this he could weigh in?

    Ken
    "Hate is an adolescent term used to stop discussion with people you disagree with. You can do better than that."
    —'blanksy', December 13, 2013

  3. #43
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    I've heard in the past of people doing this. I've never tried it, so I can't say one way or the other. But it would seem to pass the common sense test if the collimated light above it was evenly distributed.

    Maybe when Ralph reads this he could weigh in?

    Ken

    My first enlarger, an early Gnome, has a piece of ground glass above it's single condenser, it used a plain 12v bulb (and a transformer) so diffusion was necessary. for even lighting.

    Most modern condenser enlargers use coated bulbs that give out very diffuse light anyway so adding an additional diffuser would be of little benefit.

    Ian

  4. #44
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Oops. I misread...

    I thought you guys were saying opal or diffusing glass below the condenser lenses. In other words, the same location directly above the negative that cold lights use it. But you are saying above the condenser lenses. Sort of like a very large bulb surface feeding the condensers.

    I have heard of people placing diffusion material below, but not above. Interesting.

    Ken
    "Hate is an adolescent term used to stop discussion with people you disagree with. You can do better than that."
    —'blanksy', December 13, 2013

  5. #45
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    ... Most modern condenser enlargers use coated bulbs that give out very diffuse light anyway so adding an additional diffuser would be of little benefit. ...
    I agree. It won't help much but cuts down on the light.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  6. #46

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    I used to wade thru this years back, so i did some of my tests. Condenser with frosted bulb. Same with added diffuser. Aristo head with heater, first with standard blue tube, later with V54, color head.

    Prints are much the same IF YOU MAKE THE NEG FIT THE SOURCE. Prints are not the same if you print on 2 paper with condenser and 3 with diffusion. With taylored negs, condensers give more contrast in the shadows, diffusion give more detail in highlights. The effect is very slight and you really need to place them side by side to see it. There is no way you could look at one or the other alone and pick enlarger.

    If burning in highlights is important, diffusion is much easier EVEN IF the neg is made for condenser.
    Color heads work the same as cold light.

    Dust suppression is very minimal if it exists at all. I do have one neg that got a scratch from the cut end of the 35 mm roll. One of my best shots. The scratch prints on a single condenser and disappears on diffusion. It also needs some highlight burn. I print it on a diffusion.
    Grain reduction is there, but minimal. Again taylored negs side by side from 35 mm to see it. Dust is too big to suppress period.

    V54 tube is the only one worth using for VC. Color heads works perfectly.

    Adding diffusion under the bulb of a condenser and above the condensers lower the contrast 1/2 grade putting it between condenser and diffusion. Eats a lot of light.

    My take on the whole thing from tests in my darkroom done by me, Focomat 1C and V35 and also 4x5 on D2 ( condensers and Aristo) and D6 with color head. There is but 1/2 to 2/3 grade difference on focomats. 4x5 is a full grade difference.

  7. #47
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Ronald Moravec;1142193... Prints are much the same IF YOU MAKE THE NEG FIT THE SOURCE. Prints are not the same if you print on 2 paper with condenser and 3 with diffusion. With taylored negs, condensers give more contrast in the shadows, diffusion give more detail in highlights. The effect is very slight and you really need to place them side by side to see it. There is no way you could look at one or the other alone and pick enlarger. ...[/QUOTE]

    Prints are much the same if you adjust the negative contrast to fit the light source.
    Prints are much the same if you adjust the paper contrast to fit the light source.

    The difference between condenser and diffuser is not necessarily one grade. Actually, the difference between grade-2 and grade-3 paper is not necessarily one grade.

    Almost identical prints can be made from both enlargers by adjusting negative or paper contrast or both. Any remaining difference is due to the interaction of paper and negative characteristics curves and not the the light sources, that's why deviating burn-in behavior cannot be credited to the light source IMHO.
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  8. #48

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    Your results are your results and I would tell you to reread what I posted. I specifically said single condenser Focomats and diffusion Focomat differ by 1/2 grade. Omegas double condenser and diffusion color head differ by 1 full grade.

    Prints do not look the same by changing printing paper and light sources at least in my darkroom. If you are pleased, then that is what counts. Changing grades just does not do it for me.

  9. #49
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Ron

    No controversy intended, just curiosity.
    Changing paper grade, however, should create a reasonable match between two print from negatives with different gradient within reason. I wonder why you have a different experience.

    How do you change paper grades?
    How do you know what paper grade you need for the match?
    How do you know what paper grade you are getting from your system?
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

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