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  1. #21
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Please, not ANOTHER digital-vs-analog pissing contest.

    My only point is that the status quo won't stand. A handful of new films, yes; but also a big cull of E6 emulsions, b&w papers, C-41 materials, lost pro labs(decimation of reasonably good cheap 35mm dev/print services, too), scarce E6 processing and higher prices/reduced availability for what's left.
    How is my experience a pissing contest?

    The status quo constantly evolves. Decisions this year may change over time. That goes for either path. Your statement had that "We'll all be killed!" flavor.

    Steve
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  2. #22
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    For 35mm colour the most cost-effective for me is both processing and scanning at a mail-in lab. The I dry print the copies I want as part of the order. I bracket a fair #of shots on 135.

    B&W 135 is done at a friend's for processing and the occasional wet print. Seems proper and very cost effective.

    120 is all colour for me and I scan on my V500 with excellent results, but have all my prints done by a local lab. The scanner was $125 and the spider $135. Software and Mac amortized elsewhere and through my digital shooting.

    Cost and ROI depends a lot on volume, format, quality, and time/effort. The V500 cannot do 135 efficiently, but is awesome at 120. Nothing beats the wet print B&W and I am grateful to have a local assisting there for that experience. There is a lot to be said for the lab and print route alongside the wet darkroom and the hybrid option. The one cost that will chew up $$$ is a high-end Epson printer and ink. You need to print a lot to get an effective ROI there.

  3. #23

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    Thanks for all the quick replies. Looks like I'll go the traditional route. To clarify a couple things I didn't mention , I'd be doing it for personal use ,friends and family. For net posts lab scans seem to make sense to me.And to be honest since I had planned on developing the negs myself and contact printing them ala Weston style if that makes sense traditional enlarging appeals to the neanderthal. in me.

  4. #24
    Worker 11811's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryP View Post
    ...traditional enlarging appeals to the neanderthal. in me.
    I know you are joking... but...

    I drive a car with a manual transmission.
    I am a career movie projectionist and cinema technician who specializes in film.
    My wife bakes from scratch and either she or I cook our own meals on the stove in the kitchen nearly every night of the week.
    I am a sleight of hand magician who does not use props or smoke and mirrors to create illusions.
    I still love computers, digital video and nearly everything that runs on electricity.

    I love photography but I specialize in using film. That doesn't make me a neanderthal. Instead, I'm a traditionalist.
    Randy S.

    In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni.

    -----

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/randystankey/

  5. #25
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    The premise of the question is flawed. It occurs to me that

    1. The two things are not the same things, so comparing them is apples and oranges
    2. Something is only cheaper than another thing if both things do what you want


    I suggest you first decide which thing you want to do. Do you want to create real photographs or computer-generated ink drawings? Only if you consider the two things equivalent--and many do--can you compare their costs directly.
    f/22 and be there.

  6. #26
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterSense View Post
    The premise of the question is flawed. It occurs to me that

    1. The two things are not the same things, so comparing them is apples and oranges
    2. Something is only cheaper than another thing if both things do what you want


    I suggest you first decide which thing you want to do. Do you want to create real photographs or computer-generated ink drawings? Only if you consider the two things equivalent--and many do--can you compare their costs directly.
    I agree. I am in the "want to create real photographs" and I do not consider the two things equivalent camp.

    <<anti-spam shield on>>
    Warning: This is not a request nor a command to get involved in whether or not this constitutes a film-versus-digital-pissing-contest discussion. I do my pissing in the bathroom. I aim to please; your aim will help.
    <<anti-spam shield off>>
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  7. #27
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Please, not ANOTHER digital-vs-analog pissing contest.

    My only point is that the status quo won't stand. A handful of new films, yes; but also a big cull of E6 emulsions, b&w papers, C-41 materials, lost pro labs(decimation of reasonably good cheap 35mm dev/print services, too), scarce E6 processing and higher prices/reduced availability for what's left.
    Color, yes, I wonder how much longer it will be viable in a traditional home/hobby darkroom. C41 for a while no doubt, E6...well, dunno. We still have some great E6 films (with E100G and Provia 400 I could be set) but the selection is definitely limited and narrowing.

    But with black and white...honestly I believe I have more and sometimes better choices now than I did when I was last printing in 1998-99. Some are gone, sure, but there's a really big selection of papers and a more than adequate selection of film. I miss Agfapan 100, but while I really liked the film it's not like there was anything I'd photograph with it that I can't do really just as well with FP4+, TMX, Delta 100, Acros...

    I think black and white, my main love in the traditional darkroom, will have a long future.

    I already mourn the loss of type R paper and the pricing of Ilfochrome into the stratosphere though.

  8. #28
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    Color, yes, I wonder how much longer it will be viable in a traditional home/hobby darkroom. C41 for a while no doubt, E6...well, dunno. We still have some great E6 films (with E100G and Provia 400 I could be set) but the selection is definitely limited and narrowing.

    But with black and white...honestly I believe I have more and sometimes better choices now than I did when I was last printing in 1998-99. Some are gone, sure, but there's a really big selection of papers and a more than adequate selection of film. I miss Agfapan 100, but while I really liked the film it's not like there was anything I'd photograph with it that I can't do really just as well with FP4+, TMX, Delta 100, Acros...

    I think black and white, my main love in the traditional darkroom, will have a long future.

    I already mourn the loss of type R paper and the pricing of Ilfochrome into the stratosphere though.
    I agree: "C41 for a while no doubt, E6...well, dunno. "

    I would like to see C41 and black & white home processing continue. And I think that black & white traditional darkroom will have a long life.

    E6 seemed to start a downslide before digital came on the market. Was it because Kodak et al saw it as a cheap one shot processing with no continued commerical follow on for each roll, and therefore started raising the film and processing prices to high levels? I do not know.

    I used to shoot a lot of slides when I travelled, but when the children came I reluctantly switched to color prints for ease of duplication. Somehow, showing slides fell out of favor and became a source of humor and ridicule. Was that it? I still appreciate the dynamics and impact of slides, but it does not meet my needs now.

    And yes, I have processed slides at home with E4.

    Steve
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  9. #29

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    Seems like traditional is the way to go for you. Used equipment can probably be found very cheap/free if you look out as well.

  10. #30
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    + 1, but then I am not starting a film versus digital pissing contest.
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

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