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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leigh B View Post
    And the reason you've splattered this same nonsense across (at least) three different fora is ______?

    Why do you care, Leigh?

  2. #22

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    ... actually, Mike, I had similar thoughts. I find it difficult to remember which forum I responded to, and don't like having to re-read entire threads to figure out what's been said here or there. But I'm not criticizing. I'm getting old and feeble-minded too it seems.

  3. #23

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    Understood... I realize that many of the same members are on multiple forums but not all members are them same. I'm just hoping for enough input from other folks to give me an understanding of something I've been ignorant about all these years.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old-N-Feeble View Post
    Understood... I realize that many of the same members are on multiple forums but not all members are them same. I'm just hoping for enough input from other folks to give me an understanding of something I've been ignorant about all these years.

  5. #25
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    I am trying to find as much as possible from web on lens design and I found something interesting. If you research soft focus lenses , there are
    two trends , two lenses lenses as a double gauss relatively close each other and there is one trend consists two lenses are distant from each other. And there are two very thick lenses trend.

    Double gauss is used at Summicron , Summitar , Summaron , second is viewable at Elmar , third is at Glatzel Zeiss lenses.

    In my belief , Legendary german lenses have two groups in their construction and function.
    First of all , an soft focus lens and secondly other lens elements for correct focused image.

    I think that soft focus lens corrected for off focus , aberrated bokeh area.

    There would be 3 graphs at modern patents which illustrate the error of correction at focus , out of focus and distant out of focus.

    Its a xy graph and shows how distant cast the light focus out of this ideal xy graph.

    Lens designers design and understand how their or others lens create a photograph value.

    MTF test is nothing when compared with this test.

    Umut

  6. #26
    Brian C. Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old-N-Feeble View Post
    Okay... if "some" spherical aberration is necessary to produce nice bokeh then maybe I should be looking for Imagons, SF Ektars, SF Fujinons, etc. I'd only use the discs with the periferal holes closed though. I hate the effect created with them open. I'd definitely use them "stopped down" a bit. Am I crazy or is this one way to get what I want?
    Soft focus lenses aren't used for general photography, although the Imagon was advertised as a general-use lens. (I.e., outdoors, product photography, all that normal stuff) Take a look at the LFF post "in Galli style" thread, where lots of older and soft-focus lens images are posted. Figure out what type of image really suits you. There's a representative photograph on the LFF images section from just about every type of lens ever produced.

    Here's the problem: nobody really knows what you want in an image. You need to slap some film into your camera, and make some photographs. Then you can quantitatively demonstrate that your lenses behave in one direction, and you need them to go in another. Unless you can point at something in an image and say, "this sucks," then you're just chasing magic silver bullets to slay imaginary monsters.

  7. #27
    polyglot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
    Hang on, what I actually typed was "I understand it is a function of the way spherical aberration is corrected, or not" - I have added the bold type
    Indeed and you are correct.

    My post was in reply to the OP, who was saying he wanted to use modern, "highly corrected" lenses and that therefore the aperture would be the limiting factor. In actuality, "highly corrected" and sharp lenses can have quite poor bokeh and it's got absolutely nothing to do with aperture shape. If a lens is over-corrected for SA, a perfectly circular aperture cannot save you from donut highlights and likewise, if it has a just-nice amount of SA, it's fairly irrelevant what the aperture shape is.

    There's a reason the world stopped bothering with circular apertures with thousands of leaves; they're pretty pointless.

  8. #28

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    It's really beginning to sound like I can't have my cake and eat it too. One thing I really don't want to do is buy more lenses to carry. Then again, I can't carry them anyway and can't walk far from the car. So.....

  9. #29
    John Austin's Avatar
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    Dear ONF,

    Without knowing your image requirements or if your income depends on it, I would respectfully suggest you get something small and easy and enjoy your old age

    I am thankfully still healthy, active and enjoy using 10x8" in the field, (work for current clients requiring very large silver jelly prints requires it) - But for "family snaps" enjoy a Vitessa as much as anything

    What I am saying is that if your income does not depend on it why go to the expense and pain of LF if you cannot get the gear around to the locations you may wish to photograph

    A Rollei or 35mm may limit your print size if you require tonal smoothness, but remember the print size limit for Paul Strand was 10x12", EW 10x8" and Thomas Joshua Cooper made 5x7" contact prints

    I hope these observations do not cause offense, but if your photography is a hobby why make it painful?

    John

  10. #30

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    It's easy to test the Bokeh of any lens using a Bokemeter. Nikon made a nice one back in the day but they're hard to find. I'm waiting for one to turn up on eBay but haven't had much success so far.

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