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  1. #11
    JPD
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    Quote Originally Posted by E. von Hoegh View Post
    If you read that booklet, you will see that it was published by Zeiss' agent in NYC, not Zeiss themselves.
    Yes, but I wonder where they got the illustrations from if not from Zeiss? In "A lens collectors' vade mecum" the illustration of the Amatar looks exactly like in the booklet. The rear group is slightly thinner than the front group. The Dagor is more symmetrical.

    It's possible that you're right and that the Vade mecum used the same source for the illustration as the booklet. The Vade mecum states that Ross also made a Dagor type of lens, and that some of them were marked "Goerz", so they must have had licence to use the design. I hope to hear from the Zeiss museum in Jena tomorrow or next week.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails amatar2.jpg  
    J. Patric Dahlén

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPD View Post
    Yes, but I wonder where they got the illustrations from if not from Zeiss? In "A lens collectors' vade mecum" the illustration of the Amatar looks exactly like in the booklet. The rear group is slightly thinner than the front group. The Dagor is more symmetrical.

    It's possible that you're right and that the Vade mecum used the same source for the illustration as the booklet. The Vade mecum states that Ross also made a Dagor type of lens, and that some of them were marked "Goerz", so they must have had licence to use the design. I hope to hear from the Zeiss museum in Jena tomorrow or next week.
    The Ross lenses were made under license, and marked "Goerz Patent"
    The Vade Mecum is kind of iffy sometimes, and dead wrong sometimes. I've looked at a seemingly reliable reference on the Amatar that gives the reverse Dagor description, when I find an online reference to that I"ll post it here.
    The original U. S. patent , interestingly, covers both constructions, (#528155 IIRC). It states that it is immaterial which construction is used, and that both constructions may be used in a complete objective!
    I'll be very interested to see the reply from Zeiss.

  3. #13
    JPD
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    I got a reply from the helpful Wolfgang Wimmer at the Zeiss Museum in Jena. He sent me a PDF-scan from an original Zeiss brochure, and yes, it's a "reverse Dagor"!

    http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7215/6...40b20b26_z.jpg
    http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7083/6...6000fc4e_b.jpg
    http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7139/6...6db15385_b.jpg

    Apparently, the american Zeiss agent and the Vade Mecum were wrong.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails doppel_amatar4.jpg  
    J. Patric Dahlén

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPD View Post
    I got a reply from the helpful Wolfgang Wimmer at the Zeiss Museum in Jena. He sent me a PDF-scan from an original Zeiss brochure, and yes, it's a "reverse Dagor"!

    http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7215/6...40b20b26_z.jpg
    http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7083/6...6000fc4e_b.jpg
    http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7139/6...6db15385_b.jpg

    Apparently, the american Zeiss agent and the Vade Mecum were wrong.
    Thank you. I'd searched for online versions of a brochure listing the Amatar, with no luck. It's nice to have the info from an (almost) unimpeachable source.

  5. #15

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    The US patent for the Dagor. http://ip.com/patent/US528155

  6. #16
    JPD
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    Thank you.

    Can this be the patent for the Amatar? http://ip.com/patent/US886416
    J. Patric Dahlén

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPD View Post
    Thank you.

    Can this be the patent for the Amatar? http://ip.com/patent/US886416
    The cutaway from the Zeiss brochure shows a central positive element that is plano-convex, while the Zeiss patent shows a double convex central element that is closer to the Goerz patent, but with thicker front elements. Curiouser and curiouser! They're both similar but not identical to the reverse Dagor construction.

  8. #18

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    Silly question just occurred to me - do you suppose the 90 actually mounts on the body?? Or is it just an unrelated lens.

    J


    Quote Originally Posted by JPD View Post
    There's a camera with the rare Carl Zeiss Jena Doppel-Amatar 6.8/135 mm on that auction site, item nr 130677974196 It also includes the similar six element ICA Maximar lens 6.8/90 mm.
    I only post this because the Amatar has been up for discussion a couple of times, and they are quite rare. I have no connection with the seller in Germany.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by jon koss View Post
    Silly question just occurred to me - do you suppose the 90 actually mounts on the body?? Or is it just an unrelated lens.

    J
    The listing says:

    CA Ideal 626 + Carl Zeiss Jena Dr. Rudolph Doppel Amatar 135mm F/6.8 and ICA Maximar 90mm F/6.8 both in Compound shutter
    The ICA Ideal were the highest level of ICA cameras, except the Juwel. It is a 9x12cm large format folding camera with interchangeable lenses.
    This camera come with the great Dr. Rudolph computed Doppel Amatar 135mm and a really rare original ICA Maximar 90mm lens, both mounted in a Compur dial set shutter
    Did you read the listing? The lenses mount on the front standard, not on the body.

  10. #20

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    Sorry, my use of the term body was meant to encompass the front standard, the handle, the bellows and everything else that makes up what we might normally call the camera. I guess I should have asked if the 90mm mounts on this camera, or is it just an unrelated additional lens.

    J

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    The listing says:
    Did you read the listing? The lenses mount on the front standard, not on the body.

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