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  1. #1

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    What shutter to look for..........

    .............to mount my Taylor Hobson Cooke 9 inch Series V on my MPP MkVIII.

    Possibly an esoteric question, but it is such a nice lens that I'd like to get it up an running properly. The last time I used it was many years ago with a half-plate camera and a Thornton Pickard roller shutter. I can mount it on a Copal 1 lens board without a shutter, but I'd like to use wider apertures so need something with the usual range of speeds. I imagine it would be some vintage type of shutter I'm limited to?

    Steve

  2. #2
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Best get another TP shutter, you should be able fo find a front mounting one or make a woodem lensboard for the MPP and fit a between lens version.

    Ian

  3. #3

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    Thank you. Is it 'best get' as in you think Thornton Pickard roller shutters are accurate and the only ones available? I still have my half-plate and TP shutter and the shutter only goes to 1/90th sec at its fastest speed and 1/15th at its slowest, not really usable even for an f/8 lens wide open in sunlight, but I suppose it could be cobbled together on a lens board. I only ever used it stopped all they way down before and in 'T' mode, but thats no help if I want short shutter speeds and narrow DOF and lack of movement in the picture.

    Steve

  4. #4
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Steve, I specialise in TP shutter restoration, they are the only good option - Packard shutters have little speed control in comparison (I do have some).

    I understand your dilemna but when these shutters were at their peak film speeds were low. There were higher speed TP shutters they are in the catalogues but I've never seen one so far, I could make one though from a regular TP shutter as it's just the slit width that differs.

    Using old equipment you have to work to the original constraints, and they got the best out of what was available back then

    Ian

  5. #5

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    Steve, I'm not sure that you have to limit yourself to an ancient vintage shutter. A relatively modern vintage shutter might do.

    You say your lens will fit into a hole bored for a Copal #1. This means that its diameter at the rear is no more than 42 mm. With the help of a threaded bushing it should fit into the front of an Ilex #3 (~45 mm according to http://www.skgrimes.com/library/used...-shutters/ilex).

    The big question with front-mounting a wide angle lens is mechanical vignetting by the shutter. At present the shortest lens I have front mounted is a 60/14 Perigraphe that fits an Ilex 3 (odd coincidence, eh?). Vignetting is indeed a problem with it, even with the shutter's rear tube truncated the lens covers only around 90 degrees, but that happens because the lens sits so far in front of the shutter's aperture. Read about it at http://www.galerie-photo.com/telecha...2011-03-29.pdf . There are pictures.

    I think your lens will go much deeper into the shutter than my 60/14, which sits entirely in front of the shutter, and of course your lens is longer so it shouldn't lose much, if any, coverage to vignetting by an Ilex 3's rear tube. If it comes to that, the shutter's rear tube can always be truncated. Read my lens diary, you'll see that how a shutter with no rear tube can be attached to a board.

    FWIW, I'm just about convinced myself to send a 45/9 CZJ Goerz Dagor to the machine shop to have an adapter that will hold it in a #1 (not possible with a lens as large as yours). The trick there, and for your lens, is to have the lens set as deep as possible in the front of the shutter.

    Ian, I don't mean to dump on you, but in my experience ancient constraints don't always bind.

  6. #6

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    Thanks again Ian and thank you Dan.

    I think the first thing I should do is to make up a lens board with my current TP shutter and do some speed tests. 1/60th or 1/90th or thereabouts if repeatable would be OK if I finessed the exposure with ND filters. The Ilex shutter looks an interesting option Dan, although I note it says they are accurate to within one stop which I think would be the case with my TP shutter although with more limited speeds.

    Steve

  7. #7
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Dan, the TP roller blind shutters were still being made up to the very early 1960's although technically the company closed before WWII. They were almost standard on British wood & brass cameras declining with the advent of the Compund & Compur shutters. They have big advantages over the US made Packard shutters as the range of shutter speeds is useful 1/15th to 1/90th & T, if you have the pneumatic valve & release then the range extends to 2 seconds to about 1/4th or 1/8th in addition they can work with a variety of lenses.

    Yes I'd agree that fitting a lens to a more modern shutter is a good option, however those Illex shutters are rare in the UK as theyb were never sold here new, same goes for Betax/Alphax shutters.

    Ian

  8. #8

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    Steve, the Ilex 3 I use behind my 60 Perigraphe may be an anomaly, but according to my and SKGrimes' shutter speed testers it is bang on. There are also large Compound shutters.

    Ian, there's always ebay.com and USPS. I fully appreciate the risks of dealing with distant strangers, but sometimes the risk is worth taking. I've bought photographic equipment from the UK, even imported a car from the UK. The car was a Scimitar, bought sight unseen with help from an RSSOC member.

    One thing to be aware of with respect to Ilex 3s. I've recovered three from oscilloscope cameras, sold two. 'Scope camera Ilex 3s' rear tubes aren't threaded externally, so the usual way of holding the shutter on a board -- clamp the board between shutter and retaining ring -- can't be used with them. 'Scope camera Ilex 3s with 75/1.9 lenses have restricted apertures. To get full aperture when front mounting, those shutterss diaphragms have to be removed. The one I use behind the Perigraphe is held to the board by screws that go through the board and into the shutter body. On the whole, 'scope camera Ilex 3s are poisoned gifts.

  9. #9

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    I don't mind international Ebay purchases, you just need to read between the lines with Ebay descriptions with any purchase.

    Fitting the TP shutter to the MPP MkVIII is a bit more difficult than I thought, the depth of the shutter box is greater than the space between the bottom and top clips for the lens board. So it would have to stand off with a gap (which it would anyway to accomodate the shutter speed dial), so I need to make a custom lens board and/or get a board with a bigger hole in it than the Copal #1 size to stop possible vignetting. Otherwise some double sided tape would have done the trick to mount the TP shutter on the MPP Copal #1 board. Just a thought but would a Copal Press #1 shutter work? They seem to be cheap and you can get them without an iris.

    Steve

  10. #10

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    Steve, the #1 standard (Compur/Copal/Prontor/Seiko) front tube is threaded M40x0.75; the rear tube is threaded M36x0.75. Tube length is 20 mm. #1 press shutters' front of tube to iris distance is 11.7 mm. #1 cock and shoot shutters' front of tube to iris distance is 10.75 mm. Design away, if the lens will fit at all.

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