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  1. #91
    eddie's Avatar
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    I see, Ken. I responded to your response to John's post, not Clive's post. "Just" does have a bias, and I see why you would seek some clarity.

  2. #92
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    My response to John was the same as it would have been to Clive, had Clive also confirmed my sense of his original question.

    If the answer is "Yes" then no art which may rely on the "pursuit of technical perfection" is possible. If the answer is "No" then the presence or absence of "technical perfection" factors out of the equation, and the work's assertion as "art" must be assessed using other criteria.

    It's not just a case of splitting semantic hairs. If the answer is "Yes" then an entire class of potential art is summarily dismissed. And dismissed based on one person's singular opinion. And of course, if that can happen within this particular discussion, then... well...

    Photography is a big tent. It needs to remain open and accessible to all interested parties, regardless of their choices of styles or approaches. Or even talent levels.

    Ken
    "Hate is an adolescent term used to stop discussion with people you disagree with. You can do better than that."
    —'blanksy', December 13, 2013

  3. #93
    eddie's Avatar
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    Ken- Technical perfection and Art are not mutually exclusive. In fact, a degree of both are required. Whether it's 50/50, 75/25, etc., varies.
    I've seen technically perfect photos that have left me cold. I've seen great concepts ruined by a lack of competence. I think the danger lies in an over- reliance of one over the other. I think the trick is in knowing which area one is weaker, and working to improve that aspect of the work.

  4. #94
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    I couldn't agree more, Eddie. Thus, my own answer to the follow-up question would also have been a resounding "No."



    Ken
    "Hate is an adolescent term used to stop discussion with people you disagree with. You can do better than that."
    —'blanksy', December 13, 2013

  5. #95

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    hi ken

    i think a lot of it has to do with taste.
    some folks like looking at perfect .. picture perfect photographs.
    like f64 stuff.
    large negative ( maybe ) perfect grainless negative, perfectly executed film then printed
    tho show an uber level of technical perfection.
    THAT is what they think photography is all about.
    show the same person something that was made on the other side of the street
    or something created by someone who picked up a camera for the first time
    whose photograph was taken with a disposable 35mm p/s camera, and processed
    by somebody at a mini lab or drug store ... and they will think it is crap,
    even though the subject and image and everything about it is beautiful, or is a documentary image
    from their life &c ...
    and show someone who likes the gritty ( maybe ) from the disposable camera the perfect contact print
    and they will pass it by as a calendar photo.

    i agree with eddie too, that in the end it takes knowing the medium and how to use it, more than just winging it

  6. #96
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    If its an accident is it art?

    Seems to me that the quality of the craft invested in a piece of art is a judgable thing.

    Seems to me also that it should not be an accident, good art, I think, should be intentional, it should be an expression of something.

    Being good at our craft I think is part of that.
    Last edited by markbarendt; 01-06-2013 at 08:30 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  7. #97
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Some art is very intentional about incorporating chance, and there's the old Aristotelian dictum--"Art loves chance, and chance loves art."
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  8. #98
    eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb View Post
    Some art is very intentional about incorporating chance, and there's the old Aristotelian dictum--"Art loves chance, and chance loves art."
    But photography is part science. The chance must have some connection to the science.
    You can give an elephant a brush, paint, and canvas, and you'll get an image. Give an elephant an enlarger, paper, and chemicals, odds are you won't.

  9. #99
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    i think a lot of it has to do with taste.
    I agree, so long as future access to the tent is not restricted by the opinions of those who are already inside.



    Ken
    "Hate is an adolescent term used to stop discussion with people you disagree with. You can do better than that."
    —'blanksy', December 13, 2013

  10. #100
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Chance might take the form of something like the decisive moment. Even in landscape and architectural photography there is a decisive moment, perhaps when the light and the clouds are right or when no one is in the scene, or when someone is standing in just the right place to show the scale of the subject, or when the indoor light of a building is balanced by the outdoor light. Portrait photography is heavily dependent on chance expressions. Perhaps only studio still life is the exception, and even then, the inspiration of the photographer is an uncertain element.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

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