Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 69,880   Posts: 1,520,495   Online: 840
      
Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst 12345678910 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 113
  1. #31
    markbarendt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Ignacio, CO, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,592
    Blog Entries
    3
    Images
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by johnielvis View Post
    and that's proof right there that there is no such thing as "previsualization".

    most of the best photographs have been "happy accidents" as a matter of fact.

    anybody says they can predict the future is LYING.

    PERIOD.
    I work on industrial machinery in the oil field every work day.

    When I repair or adjust the machinery properly and the machines are "fed" the appropriate stuff, it works reliably, very reliably.

    In industrial processes, there are no happy accidents.

    Photography, the craft, is an industrial process. A given input, using a given process, and given materials, produces a given result. If we pre visualize and execute the tasks involved properly we get a given result.

    Surely, in photography, we have all had happy mistakes, but in my experience they are normally the exception, not the rule.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  2. #32

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    15,935
    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    I work on industrial machinery in the oil field every work day.

    When I repair or adjust the machinery properly and the machines are "fed" the appropriate stuff, it works reliably, very reliably.

    In industrial processes, there are no happy accidents.

    Photography, the craft, is an industrial process. A given input, using a given process, and given materials, produces a given result. If we pre visualize and execute the tasks involved properly we get a given result.

    Surely, in photography, we have all had happy mistakes, but in my experience they are normally the exception, not the rule.

    hi mark
    i couldn't agree with you more !!
    it s just a process, like baking bread ...

    me i would rather through as many unknowns in the process as i can
    just to see what happens ( most of the time )
    i can totally understand why someone else would do something other than that ...
    ... without chance, serendipity, human interaction, and "trubble" things get kind of boring

    your milage may vary from factory specs ..
    john
    if my apug gallery looks empty you might check these places

    website
    blog
    sell-site

  3. #33
    BradS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    S.F. Bay Area, California
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    3,946
    Quote Originally Posted by E. von Hoegh View Post
    I'm not so sure.
    The last time I tried existing light photos in a barroom with my Deardorff V8 it was a dismal failure...
    Are you blaming the camera?

  4. #34

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,845
    Quote Originally Posted by johnielvis View Post
    and that's proof right there that there is no such thing as "previsualization".

    most of the best photographs have been "happy accidents" as a matter of fact.

    anybody says they can predict the future is LYING.

    PERIOD.
    Don't agree entirely, Chance Favors the Prepared Mind. My best case for "Happy Accidents" have been when I put chance in my favor....period.

  5. #35
    LJH
    LJH is online now

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Shooter
    ULarge Format
    Posts
    518
    Quote Originally Posted by johnielvis View Post
    nope [sic]...a fact was stated (the future cannot be predicted), that is all. a [sic] fact is not a prediction.

    people [sic] fool themselves into believing that they can have control, but they have none. nature [sic] and chance have to cooperate with the "controller". Most of the time, if the "controller" goes with the law of average outcomes, then his outcome will be pleasing--thus reinforcing the belief that there was some "control" being exercised.
    When was your opinion ordained as fact? "...fact is not a prediction" is a contradictory statement. How can you have "fact" before an event? It only becomes fact after it occurs. Until then, it is wholly speculation/prediction. Perhaps you need to put your OPINION to the test based on mutual exclusivity.

    Of course you can predict the future. I predict that the sun will set tonight. I predict that it will rise tomorrow. I predict that the Aspens in Grand Teton will turn yellow this year.

    Most convincingly, I predict that you will argue this post.

    PERIOD.

  6. #36
    LJH
    LJH is online now

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Shooter
    ULarge Format
    Posts
    518
    Quote Originally Posted by johnielvis View Post
    ...photohgraphy [sic] is STILL very difficult.
    Not as difficult as trying to understand your simile to golf…

    PERIOD.

  7. #37
    EASmithV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,873
    Blog Entries
    4
    Images
    121
    Quote Originally Posted by E. von Hoegh View Post
    I'm not so sure.
    The last time I tried existing light photos in a barroom with my Deardorff V8 it was a dismal failure...
    I pulled it off with a Graflex once

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/easmith...7622743683050/
    www.EASmithV.com

    "The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera."— Dorothea Lange
    http://www.flickr.com/easmithv/
    RIP Kodachrome

  8. #38
    BradS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    S.F. Bay Area, California
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    3,946
    Quote Originally Posted by johnielvis View Post
    ahhh yes...haters be hatin'

    people don't like the truth and that's also a fact

    look in the mirror. people react negatively to you because you're being offensive, abrasive and abusive. We're mostly just trying to have some fun...play nice or go away.
    Last edited by BradS; 01-05-2013 at 02:02 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #39
    markbarendt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Ignacio, CO, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,592
    Blog Entries
    3
    Images
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by johnielvis View Post
    apples and oranges, dude--wishful thinking...all of the posts on this and all the other photographic websites are a testament to the unpredictability of the "process".

    honestly...no happy accidents in industry...every great innovation in history has pretty much been through some accidental discovery...microwave, light bulb...
    You are mixing up the distinctions between deliberate creative work (art/science), our inexperience/ignorance, and professional/craft work (industry). Three very different things.

    The craft of photography is a mature industrial process. While individually we may have a lot to learn about this craft, there is truly very little that is unknown by the collective. This is especially true of "off the shelf products".

    There is no question in "Kodak's" mind about how TX or TXP or Portra react to given inputs, none.

    I actually spent 8-years in underground mining. Got to see first hand the unpredictability. The "wild cards" there are two fold.

    First is that we craftspersons/miners could not see through the rock so we were occasionally surprised by what we found, the engineers weren't. The exploration had been done years before, the properties of the rocks and the general position in the world were all knowns. These were minor variations and there were established ways to deal with the changes, basically just an "ask your boss" situation.

    Second, and by far the more dangerous, are the people around us. Sure the guy sitting in the powder magazine having his "last cigarette" because his wife just dumped him, or the guy that isn't at his best because of his hangover and lack of sleep, were definitely problems, but respectively rare and minor ones. The bigger issue is management pushing the known technical limits to meet the contract/profit requirements regardless of the risks.

    Not a happy industrial accident here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crandall_Canyon_Mine

    Different industry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster

    The happy accidents scientists and engineers have, when they find something unexpected because of research along a different line, are more interesting and benefits may ensue and as with the light bulb can be pretty benign, but happy isn't the rule.

    Dying as Marie Curie did wasn't http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Curie

    When photography was "newer" there was much true experimentation and the side effect of the chemicals involved weren't known. Today we use "Pyro's" pretty safely, but "we" killed and sickend a fair numbers of people to learn those lessons.

    Even "your" Russian camera, like my Holga and shutterless Petzval can be learned and even mastered for effect as we build experience with the tool.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  10. #40
    polyglot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    South Australia
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    3,080
    Images
    12
    Hey guys, quit feedin' the troll. We have ignore-lists for the express purpose of keeping your blood-pressure down and my life is far the happier for making judicious use thereof.

    As to the question at hand: movements* are the primary reason that I got into LF.

    More detail could be a nice theoretical bonus but 4x5 isn't a huge improvement over 6x7 in that department and it's swamped by differences in film technology. For example, 6x7 Acros is about 35c/frame, 4x5 Fomapan (Arista) is 70c/frame and 4x5 TMX/Acros is $1.80/frame. Going to LF approximately doubles the film cost for no increase in resolution, or you can increase $$ by 6x for about one extra stop of detail. Similar price ratio (4x) for shooting E6 and about 7x if you want to shoot C41, still for just that one extra stop of detail.

    I'm also a recovering technophile so I enjoy the challenge of using (and getting the most out of) complex toys and while that's a bad reason to choose a particular artistic approach/technology, I'm pretty sure it applies to a lot of LF users. It probably doesn't matter though as long as the technology isn't actively holding you back - I make a point of using more-appropriate toys when taking more-spontaneous photos like candid portraits in poor light, or travelling around the world.


    * movements are not happy accidents. Movements are the result of a plan to achieve a specific (pre-visualised, even) outcome in terms of perspective and focal plane.

Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst 12345678910 ... LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin