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  1. #1
    Bruce Osgood's Avatar
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    CLA? - What to expect.

    I have a Fuji 135 5.6 lens in a copal 1 shutter. I also have a Calumet shutter tester that produces the following discrepancies:

    TESTED TIME 1s 1/2 1/4 1/8 1/15 1/30 1/60
    ADJUSTMENT -1/3 -1/2 -1/2 -1/2 -1/3 -1.5 -1/2 Stop

    Will a CLA from a reliable business such as KEA Camera bring things into agreement or is the answer in a new shutter?

    Thanks,

  2. #2

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    I, personally, would only be concerned about the -1.5 measurement and would remeasure that to make sure it is no error. I highly suspect, though, that a good professional servicing is likely all that is needed to get better numbers than that. Is there anything else wrong with the shutter?

  3. #3
    Bruce Osgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    ............ Is there anything else wrong with the shutter?
    No, when I was using it regularly it performed very well. It was only when I discovered the large (greater than 1/3 stop) errors I put it away until now.

  4. #4

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    Well then... I would say that a good servicing is what the shutter needs and it should be alright after that!

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    And they complain about Sieko shutters.

    I am with Brian on this one. Except for the 1/30th speed, I would live with it. Knowing what the offset is allows you to work around it. -1.5 is a big jump though. I suspect a CLA will bring everything back close to spec.

    tim in san jose
    Where ever you are, there you be.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by k_jupiter View Post
    And they complain about Sieko shutters.

    I am with Brian on this one. Except for the 1/30th speed, I would live with it. Knowing what the offset is allows you to work around it. -1.5 is a big jump though. I suspect a CLA will bring everything back close to spec.

    tim in san jose
    If the speeds are reliable and consistent, you can always compensate - although that's inconvenient. However, if the lubricants are deteriorating and there's dirt inside, you might have a shutter that will continue to change the speeds. Typically a proper CLA will result in all but the one or two highest speeds being very close to the marked speeds, and very consistent.

    I take a change in speeds as an indication that the shutter needs servicing, the same as a clock or watch changing rate is an indication that it's time for a cleaning.

  7. #7

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    First, even a proper CLA won't necessary make all speeds exact. I've seen, multiple times, test results after CLAs where tested speed might be off by as much as 30-50% on the slow end. And I'm talking about test results provided by good repair techs. I assume that the mechanics of making one speed correct might alter a different speed. And I assume it also depends on both the initial build quality and the subsequent wear on the shutter.

    So being a 1/3 stop off at 1s isn't has much a concern (at least if it was my lens) as a 1/2 stop off at 1/60.

    I'm no expert, but it does seem a CLA is in order. But, out of curiosity, did you discover the discrepancy on film or just with your tester?
    "Far more critical than what we know or do not know is what we do not want to know." - Eric Hoffer

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by mgb74 View Post
    First, even a proper CLA won't necessary make all speeds exact. I've seen, multiple times, test results after CLAs where tested speed might be off by as much as 30-50% on the slow end. And I'm talking about test results provided by good repair techs. I assume that the mechanics of making one speed correct might alter a different speed. And I assume it also depends on both the initial build quality and the subsequent wear on the shutter.

    So being a 1/3 stop off at 1s isn't has much a concern (at least if it was my lens) as a 1/2 stop off at 1/60.

    I'm no expert, but it does seem a CLA is in order. But, out of curiosity, did you discover the discrepancy on film or just with your tester?
    Then they didn't do much of the "A" part. "CLA" means clean, lube, adjust. If a shutter is in good enough condition to give consistant speeds, it can usually be adjusted to be pretty close- say 10%-15% to the marked speeds. More than that is unacceptable, unless there's a good reason.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by mgb74 View Post
    First, even a proper CLA won't necessary make all speeds exact. I've seen, multiple times, test results after CLAs where tested speed might be off by as much as 30-50% on the slow end. And I'm talking about test results provided by good repair techs. I assume that the mechanics of making one speed correct might alter a different speed. And I assume it also depends on both the initial build quality and the subsequent wear on the shutter.

    So being a 1/3 stop off at 1s isn't has much a concern (at least if it was my lens) as a 1/2 stop off at 1/60.

    I'm no expert, but it does seem a CLA is in order. But, out of curiosity, did you discover the discrepancy on film or just with your tester?
    While I agree with EvH immensely that many (most?) CLA does not include rigourous "A" I feel obligated to mention that 30% error is for some professional shutters within the original specification.

    It seems to me that most shutter overhauls clean and lubricate with the assumption (good in most cases... in my experience) that those two activities will restore the original capability and specs.

    For me a half-stop is still relatively insignificant and the most useless tool I -- personally speaking -- could ever buy is a shutter tester that might evoke my currently-repressed shutter-speed neurotic tendencies/anxieties.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    While I agree with EvH immensely that many (most?) CLA does not include rigourous "A" I feel obligated to mention that 30% error is for some professional shutters within the original specification.
    It seems to me that most shutter overhauls clean and lubricate with the assumption (good in most cases... in my experience) that those two activities will restore the original capability and specs.

    For me a half-stop is still relatively insignificant and the most useless tool I -- personally speaking -- could ever buy is a shutter tester that might evoke my currently-repressed shutter-speed neurotic tendencies/anxieties.
    Yes, this is correct. It's also unacceptable, I've always felt it was a weasel tolerance. I need to know that my exposure will be what I expect; transparency film will not tolerate much error, and black and white is the same if you are using it's entire tonal range.. Is 30% error acceptable in a lightmeter? No. Aperture calibration? No. Then why on shutter speeds? I've never had a problem getting the speeds within the 10 to 15 percent tolerance I mentioned above, with the exception of the one or two higher speeds on leaf shutters, which will be consistent but slower than the marked speed.

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