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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by LJH View Post
    Speaking of no-brained, nice racist slur there.

    If it's "aluminium & plastic crap", why does it matter where it's built? What led you to add where it's made, ignorance, Xenophobia or a pinch from both pots?
    I don't see the "racist slur" here.

    Mr. van Hoegh stated his opinion of plastic and aluminum cameras and yes, the camera is made in China. Or was the racist slur against people in Chicago?

    And you could never accuse me of xenophobia. I work in a group of engineers where I am the only native born American. Couple of Chinese, a couple of Vietnamese, a Russian, and my boss is Pakistani. Great working with them all.

    Personally, it doesn't look like a bad camera. Not built like a Deardorff but then again, what is?

    tim in san jose
    Where ever you are, there you be.

  2. #12
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    If it were just 'plastic and aluminium', that's fine, but in using Chinese as an adjective against Chicago in a sentence, then I reckon you are comparing two products or manufacturing techniques/materials/quality standards by 'race', and then yes, that's certainly racist :-( To me, bad quality is universal, but then equally, so is good quality. I own a Japanese Wista, which I love, but I would equally love a Chinese Chamonix, a French Arca-Swiss, or a US Deardorff - having played with them all, they are all beautiful cameras with different charms... Deardorff's are great, but then, read the lengthy thread on the LF forum about the current company and the messy dealings some (not all) customers have had with them. No-one's perfect.

    Marc!
    Marc Morel
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  3. #13

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    Thanks guys for advice and Please no more racist talking here...

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by munz6869 View Post
    If it were just 'plastic and aluminium', that's fine, but in using Chinese as an adjective against Chicago in a sentence, then I reckon you are comparing two products or manufacturing techniques/materials/quality standards by 'race', and then yes, that's certainly racist :-( To me, bad quality is universal, but then equally, so is good quality. I own a Japanese Wista, which I love, but I would equally love a Chinese Chamonix, a French Arca-Swiss, or a US Deardorff - having played with them all, they are all beautiful cameras with different charms... Deardorff's are great, but then, read the lengthy thread on the LF forum about the current company and the messy dealings some (not all) customers have had with them. No-one's perfect.

    Marc!
    First off, identifying the location of origin is NOT racist. Get off your PC high horse. He was comparing two products or manufacturing techniques/materials/quality standards by location and perceived manufacturing standards. One happens to have been made in Chicago, one in his opinion, made to inferior standards in China. Oh my gosh, like that would ever happen? Go down to Walmart and see for yourself. I heard nothing about race in that sentence.

    And second, no one said anything about buying a NEW Deardorff. Why anyone in the world would buy a new LF camera is beyond me. And no one who owns an old Deardorff would ever expect any service from the new company.

    rolls eyes once again.
    Where ever you are, there you be.

  5. #15
    LJH
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_jupiter View Post
    First off, identifying the location of origin is NOT racist. Get off your PC high horse. He was comparing two products or manufacturing techniques/materials/quality standards by location and perceived manufacturing standards. One happens to have been made in Chicago, one in his opinion, made to inferior standards in China. Oh my gosh, like that would ever happen? Go down to Walmart and see for yourself. I heard nothing about race in that sentence.


    rolls eyes once again.
    Does the sand that you're burying you head in get in your eyes when you roll them?

    The original reference to China is an irrelevance. It is a generalisation. It is both presumptuous and inflammatory. It vilifies the Chinese.

    For you to tell Marc (and, vicariously, me) to get off our "PC high horse" shows you utter lack of understanding of, or disregard for, the human consequences for such antiquated, ignorant, Nationalistic and Xenophobic hyperbole.

    My guess is that this will fall on deaf ears. The easy route is to keep peddling fear and loathing; the more difficult is trying to understand that we're all in this together.

  6. #16
    Ari
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    I prefer metal cameras.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ari View Post
    I prefer metal cameras.
    Can we please avoid the hylophobic statements? Seriously though, can't we all just get along. Whatever your views, a little perspective control goes a long way.

    Leo
    "There is a time and place for all things, the difficulty is to use them only in their proper time and places." -- Robert Henri

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by LJH View Post
    My guess is that this will fall on deaf ears. The easy route is to keep peddling fear and loathing; the more difficult is trying to understand that we're all in this together.
    Yep. Deaf ears.

    No peddling fear and loathing. An observation, true or not, about Chinese products. Not a freaking racist line in there. As I have said, my workmates are about 75% Asian or eastern European. Great engineers, love most of them. And the ones I don't, it's personal.

    But... a lot of crap comes out of China. It does. And if Mr. vH wants to express his opinion about that crap, what right do you have to call him racist? And by me defending him, you call me racist. You are over the line.

    tim in san jose
    Where ever you are, there you be.

  9. #19
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    A lot of crap comes out of every country (who on Earth ARE these people drinking Fosters beer, for example?) - there's absolutely no need to generalise by country/race - you can be specific, and that will only hurt one manufacturer's pride (and hopefully support those who do make good products)! I wouldn't call anyone on this forum a racist, but the language certainly was, and I won't ever back down from that.

    Marc!
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  10. #20

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    From my understanding China makes some of the best steel in the world. Nikon Digital cameras are made in China. China does make quality products.

    China also makes crap including toys painted with lead paint and tools that injure you even if used properly. They have a huge reputation for making crap because that's what they ship to us in the U.S.

    The problem is that sometimes the only thing available to buy is the Chinese crap. This is what pisses people like E. and I off.

    I'm not prejudiced against the Chinese people. I mostly blame the problem on the U.S. government and the greed of U.S. companies outsourcing for cheap labor and the American consumer's desire for cheap products over quality. Of course I am probably getting political here.

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