Kerry, you are right. I did a fast check with my 300mm Apo-Germinar on the groundglass. The maximum I can check on my TK45 is a direct shift of 103 mm,which would result in an image circle of about 350mm or close to 60░. At f/22 there is no mechanical vignetting at all, which means that the circle of illumination is certainly somewhat bigger than even this value.
Originally Posted by kthalmann
I'd potentially be interested in a 1000mm depending on price.
I have received additional information concerning mounting the 750mm and 1000mm APO Germinars (110mm rear thread diameter) on Sinar boards.
Originally Posted by kthalmann
One or two minor modifications may be required. Neither modification requires any precision machine work, nor do they alter the actual lens in any way.
First, the outer diameter of the mounting flange is slightly larger than the Sinar lens boards. The actual outer diameter of the 110mm threaded flanges is about 142 - 143mm (the Sinar Boards are 140mm x 140mm). Depending on your camera's front standard design, it may require filing away a few millimeters from the outside of the mounting flange - not the entire flange, but just creating flat spots at the extreme outer diameter. Even after this modification is performed, it should still be possible to mount the flange securely to the Sinar board.
Second, if you plan to use these lenses with the Sinar behind-the-lens Copal shutter, a spacer ring will be required between the lens board and lens mount to prevent the rear lens barrel from protruding behind the board and interfering with the operation of the shutter. Again, this spacer ring would only be required if you intend to use these lenses with the Sinar behind-the-lens shutter.
As far as mounting these longer (600mm, 750mm and 1000mm) APO Germinars in shutters, the best, most cost effective solution would be to use either a behind-the-lens shutter (such as the Sinar or a Packard), or to use a front mounted shutter (like a LUC or front mounted Packard). Unlike many shorter, smaller process lenses, mounting these large APO Germinars in a shutter is not a "slam dunk". While it may technically possible to mount them in a Copal No. 3 shutter or a large Ilex or Compund shutter, it requires a lot of very precise machine work (which will be very costly) and also has two other drawbacks. Mounting in the shutter, will restrict the maximum apertue. For example, the 1000mm APO Germinar has a maximum aperture of f12 in it's original barrel. When placed in a Copal No. 3 shutter, the maximum aperture becomes nearly f20 - which results in a very dim ground glass. Also, the smaller throat size of the shutter will likely cause mechanical vignetting which could significantly reduce the size of the usable image circle. I just want anyone considering buying one of these longer lenses to know of these potential obstacles up front and to weigh the options before committing to purchase one of these lenses.
For a fine example of a 750mm APO Germinar with a front mounted Packard shutter, please see the SK Grimes web site. I believe, but am not 100% certain, that it is a Sinar lens board shown in that photo.
It's a Go! - OK, there has been sufficient interest that I have decided to proceed - more details below.
Lens Prices: Since several people have asked about pricing information, I will post that first. The prices for the 150mm f9 Germinar-W in barrel, 240mm f9 Germinar-W in barrel with polarizer and lens shade and 300mm f9 APO Germinar cell sets will remain unchanged. Please refer to the links in my original post for the details on what is included with each lens. The special prices for APUG subscribers will remain:
150mm f9 Germinar-W in barrel - $200 + shipping and insurance
240mm f9 Germinar-W in barrel with lens shade and polarizer - $250 + shipping and insurance
300mm f9 APO Germinar-W matched cell sets - $200 + shipping and insurance
We have also established prices for the longer APO Germinar lenses. Prices for APUG subscribers will be:
600mm f9 APO Germinar in barrel - $390 + shipping and insurance
750mm f9 APO Germinar in barrel - $490 + shipping and insurance
1000mm f12 APO Germinar in barrel - $690 + shipping and insurance
I will also have a small number of 210mm f4.5 Docter Tessars in Copal No. 3 shutters for sale at $300 each + shipping and insurance. Unfortunately, these lenses do not have aperture scales engraved on the shutters. You will either have to make your own aperture scales or pay someone like SK Grimes to do so for you. We priced these low enough that you are basically buying a nice new Copal No. 3 shutter at a very attractive price and getting a lens thrown in for free.
To round out the offereings, I will also have a very small number of new-old-stock barrel mounted 270mm and 305mm G Clarons for sale. These are fairly late, unused G Clarons that fit right into standard No. 1 shutters. They will be priced at:
270mm f9 G Claron in barrel - $250 + shipping and insurance
305mm f9 G Claron in barrel - $290 + shipping and insurance
Details - Keep in mind that ALL of these lenses are to be considered "new-old-stock". What that means is they were made at sometime in the past, but have never been used. All are guaranteed to be free from defects and I will offer a 100% 14 day money back guarantee on all lenses sold. Of course, a 3% donation will be made to APUG for all lenses sold through APUG to APUG subscribers. I believe in supporting his valuable resource, so I only offer the prices above to APUG subscribers. If you're not already an APUG subscriber, buy yourself a subscription as a holiday gift that lasts the whole year long.
At this time, I am not taking any deposits or creating any waiting lists for these lenses. The prices for APUG members are fixed. No bidding wars will be allowed and all bribes declined. If I do end up offering any lenses for sale on eBay, as in the past, the prices on eBay will be higher than those offered here. I'd rather see APUG get 3% of every lenses sold than pay eBay listing and final value fees. I'd also like to see as many lenses as possible end up in the hands of members of the APUG community. Payment by PayPal only please. If you're not already a PayPal member, and plan to buy one of these lenses, please sign up now so there won't be any delays at the time of purchase.
Shipping - For the smaller lenses, the shipping fees charged will be the actual costs to ship Insured USPS Priority Mail to US residents and Insured Global EMS for international buyers. For these small lenses, I do not charge any fees for packing materials. I use free boxes from the Postal Service and save and re-use all packing materials I receive (bubble wrap, foam packing peanuts, etc.). For the heavier lenses (600mm, 750mm and 1000mm), I may charge a nominal additional fee (a couple bucks, perhaps) for additional packing materials. If so, this will be clearly stated when they are listed for sale. These lenses are quite heavy and may require larger, sturdier boxes than provided by the Postal Service. They will also likely require additional packing materials. My personal supply of bubble wrap and foam peanuts is finite and will likely be exhausted after the holidays and shipping all the smaller lenses. My experience with heavy lenses is that they can be easily damaged if they are not packed properly. I believe it is better to be safe then sorry with these rare, heavy lenses. So, if I need to purchase additional boxes and packing materials to safely ship these lenses, I will have to pass the cost of those materials onto the buyers. Again, this will be spelled out in detail when I list them for sale. Hopefully, most people won't mind paying a couple extra dollars to make sure their beautiful new lenses are well protected during shipping.
Limited Quantities - I believe there will be enough of the 150mm Germinar-Ws, 240mm Germinar-Ws and 300mm APO Germinars for all APUG members who have expressed an interest. That doesn't mean there is an infinite supply, just that I don't expect to sell out within a week of posting them for sale. The longer APO Germinars are another story. They will be in extremely short supply - especially the 600mm and 1000mm. Based on the response I have received, I expect these two to sell out almost instaneously. As I will be getting a few more of the 750mm APO Germinars, I expect them to last a bit longer, but they will also likely sell out in a few days time. The G Clarons will also be very limited in number and will probably sell out quickly.
Once I have the lenses in my possession and am ready to start selling them, I will post them for sale in the classifieds section of APUG. They may arrive before the Christmas holiday, but as I have other holiday commitments and no intention of fighting the lines at the Post Office, I will not offer them for sale until after the 25th. The exact date and time will depend on when they arrive and how busy I am with other obligations. Other than to say that it will be sometime on, or after the morning of December 26th, I will give no advance warning of when the lenses will be listed on APUG. As many of the lenses are available in very limited quantities, I want to make this as fair as possible. They will be sold strickly on a first come, first served basis.
If you have any more questions about the lenses, I advise asking them as soon as possible. If you wait until the lenses are offered for sale, they may be sold out before I get a chance to answer your questions.
Thank You - Thanks to all who have responded here and in private. I especially appreciate the input from people who have first hand knowledge of these lenses. It's too bad that they are no longer made and available in such limited quantities. I hope most of these lenses will end up in the hands of APUG members and will be used to creat many beautiful, traditional photographs.
Flange Ring PDF - I have uploaded a PDF containing a life size image of the 110mm mounting flange. This is the mounting flange used for both the 750mm and 1000mm APO Germinar lenses.
If you print this file out with no scaling (100%), it can be used a rough guide to check fit on your lens board and determine what, if any, modifications may be required. Please just use this as a guide. Do not use this image to actually cut any holes in your lens board. If you plan to buy one of these lenses, please wait until you have the actual flange mounting ring in-hand before attempting any modification to your lens board. Although we tried to maintain 100% scaling throughout the process, there might be some slight differences in size between the image and the actual flange ring. Again, use it as a rough guide only to gage approximate fit. Note, there is also some shadowing on the image, particularly near the top, that may make it appear a bit larger than it actually is.
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Just a quick update on the status the Germinar lenses. The lenses have been shipped from Germany, but they have not yet arrived. Due to the heavy shipping volume this time of year, they might not arrive until after Christmas. If they get here in time, I will still try to post the listings in the classified section on the 26th. If they arrive later, I will post them as soon as possible - definitely before the first of the year.
I will be getting the following lenses:
150mm f9 Germinar-W
240mm f9 Germinar-W
300mm f9 APO Germinar Cell Sets
210mm f4.5 Tessar in Copal No. 3
600mm f9 APO Germinar
750mm f9 APO Germinar
1000mm f12 APO Germinar
I will also receive a very limited quantity of unused 270mm f9 and 305mm f9 barrel mounted G Clarons.
Once the lenses arrive, I will post better photos of the longer APO Germinars. In the mean time, click on the links above for pictures and more information on these lenses.
Other than the 210mm Tessars, none of the lenses come with shutters. The 150mm, 240mm and 300mm Germinars, along with the 270mm and 305mm G Clarons are direct fit into standard Copal/Compur shutters (see the links for more details). The longer APO Germinars are not well suited to mounting in standard shutters. A Packard, or similar, shutter would be the best approach to using the 600mm, 750mm and 1000mm lenses with a shutter. I cannot supply shutters. You will have to track those down on your own.
If you have any questions, please try to ask them in advance. Some of the lenses will sell out very quickly and I won't have time to answer questions before they sell. They will all be sold on a first come, first served basis.
do you have weights for the long lenses?.........my main interest is the 1000.
Originally Posted by claytume
The longer (600mm, 750mm and 1000mm) APO Germinars are VERY heavy and bulky. Definitely not for those who like to backpack (of course, I don't know anybody who backpacks with a 20x24, so weight might not be an issue for those considering these lenses). The "official" weights listed in Arne Croell's table are 2350g for the 600mm, 3900g for the 750mm and 4500g for the 1000mm. Those weights might be a bit higher than the actual weights of the lenses. I have been informed that the acual weight of the 600mm is 1880g. So, the 750 and 1000 might also be lighter than specified, but still not to be consider lightweight. Once I have the lenses in my possession, I'll weight them and post the actual weights.
Kerry; I have one of your 240's. What a great lens. I'm one of the weird ones interested in the 210. Do you know the filter size?
I'm interested in one of the 270 G-Clarons.