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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by claytume
    Early Riser

    I appreciate the extensive testing you have done and the point of view you have, having seen the outcome with your own eyes. I too would be expecting to see sharp negs with 15x loupe.

    My question is why would Sinar with the reputation they have sell a shutter system that can't use all the shutter speeds?

    Doesn't make sense to me.

    Clayton

    Clayton, I don't know why Sinar does what it does, all i can do is see if whatever tools they make do what I need them to do. Here's an example though of Sinar thinking. I bought a Sinar expolux shutter and monitor system. It was listed in their catalog as being capable of giving 1/10th of a stop adjustments. Something you might consider reasonable for a shutter system costing $10,000. After buying the expolux I discovered that the f stops are at best adjustable by 1/3 stop as it's smallest increment, not the 1/10 that was stated in their catalog.

    It was photo expo time and I knew Sinar people would be there. So I went to photo expo and explained the situation to the sinar engineers that were there. They explained to me that moving the aperture with motors only had so much precision and small f stops on lenses were such tiny apertures that they could only guarantee increment accuracy to 1/3rd of a stop. Ok I could see their point, f 45 is a tiny aperture and setting such an aperture with motors could be tricky. However what he said next really floored me, he then told me that it was moot because no one can tell the difference between anything smaller than 1/3 of a stop anyway, and that's why film companies increment their film in thirds. Now by this point in my life i had been a photographer for quite a while, and the standard for brackets for every single studio I knew of was a 1/4 stop. My own push/pull brackets at the lab were done in 1/8th stop increments and to me, and my clients, the differences were always apparent. But anyway, an engineer from Sinar said that no one could tell the difference and that's that.

    So sinar made a $10,000 shutter that did not actually work consistently to the standards of professional photographers, that standard being 1/4 stop bracketing. Most people who buy Sinar Auto aperture shutters are studio photographers. During the 1970's to 1990's probably 95 percent of those photographers primarily used strobe. In the studio using strobes the auto ap shutter is superb, out of doors with a long lens and slow shutter speed, the huge shutter blades vibrate too much.

    When you do a slow shutter speed exposure with a 35mm camera, do you lock up the mirror? All that vibration from a tiny mirror slapping. Compare the size of that mirror to the size of the shutterblades and other moving parts inside an Auto Ap shutter.

    BTW my testing was with an 8x loupe, not a 15x. Nothing looks sharp through a 15x loupe.
    Last edited by Early Riser; 01-06-2006 at 06:32 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #22

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    "green" sinar shutter for Cambo SC

    I just purchased a "green", not auto-aperture, Sinar shutter with intention to mount it on a Cambo SC board. It all seemed straightforward when looking at images of the shutter (I am still waiting for its arrival) until I read this thread. Are those two latches on the shuter actually used to hold the bellows, and not the lensboard? But what then holds the Sinar lensboard-there is nothing like that visible on the opposite side of the shutter? I thought it would be these two latches. Checking Cambo web-site, there is a Cambo-Sinar adapter and it also has the latches to hold the lensboard .
    I am quite lost! Joseph

    Quote Originally Posted by Struan Gray
    If you can make an adaptor to use Sinar lensboards on your camera you can mount the shutter back-to-front: you attach the black plastic/resin bit that looks like a bellows frame to the lensboard adapter, and you mount the lens using the clamps on the shutter that would normally grip the bellows.

    With this reversed setup the shutter blades are a centimeter or so closer to the lens (you lose the thickness of the front carrier frame, and the rebate in the shutter itself) so some lenses that are already mounted for the Sinar shutter may project too far to the rear, or their mounting screws may foul the front of the shutter body. You may also have a problem with very heavy lenses flexing the shutter outwards. However, all the shutter controls are usable and readable and the system has worked pretty well for me.

    The Norma-era kit is beautifully made and can be repaired and adjusted if need be. Sinar still carry parts for the plastic inserts on the rail guides and focussing tracks that are sometimes worn or compressed, as well as small parts like the levels that are sometimes dried or missing. Complete Norma 4x5 kits in good condition are pretty cheap in Europe these days.

    You could in theory mix-and-match Plaubel and Sinar standards, but you will need a hybrid bellows and give the prices of the old monorails I personally wouldn't bother. If you can't make a simple lensboard adapter (how big are Plaubel lensboards?) hacking a spare Plaubel front standard to take Sinar lensboard on the front would be your fastest and simplest route.

  3. #23

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    sorry, I just realized my question has been already answered on the previous page. I just started using this forum and didn't notice the page numbers at the bottom of the page. Joseph

  4. #24
    Struan Gray's Avatar
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    I still forget. What is that thing that goes first as you age??

    Welcome to APUG Joseph.

    For what it's worth, I have eliminated the Sinar shutter from my 4x5 field kit. Not because I get better photographs, but because I can work more quickly without it, and it cuts down on pack weight - and bulk. I still use and love it for footling about with old and oddball lenses.

  5. #25
    JohnArs's Avatar
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    [IMG]jpg[/IMG] Here I show you how I have a solution for my Burke & James it needs a second tripod and a frontstandart and the short rail of the Sinar F 1!
    /Users/arminseeholzer/Desktop/Burke + James/B&J goes Sinar.jpg
    Good light and nice shadows!

    www.artfoto.ch

  6. #26
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    [IMG]jpg[/IMG] Here I show you how I have a solution for my Burke & James it needs a second tripod and a frontstandart and the short rail of the Sinar F 1!
    Good light and nice shadows!

    www.artfoto.ch

  7. #27
    medform-norm's Avatar
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    John, the image isn't showing up. Maybe you can provide a link to where it hosted?
    Want to reach a wide audience? Place your ad here! Contact me for details and discuss your sponsorship today!

  8. #28
    JohnArs's Avatar
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    Hi
    Here is the link to the german LF Forum and my picture on it!
    http://portfolio.grossformatfotograf...?image_id=1266
    Hope it helps!
    Good light and nice shadows!

    www.artfoto.ch

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