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  1. #11
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    I suspect the #5 is a little more powerful, but here's one across a 5-lane New York City street--



    Norman 200C pack, GVI auto strobe head, 5" plain reflector, Efke PL 100/Acufine (EI 200), 4x5" Tech V (image is about half the frame), Symmar 210/5.6 convertible at f:5.6, handheld, 1/15 sec. to catch a little motion.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  2. #12
    Lachlan Young's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb
    I suspect the #5 is a little more powerful, but here's one across a 5-lane New York City street--

    Norman 200C pack, GVI auto strobe head, 5" plain reflector, Efke PL 100/Acufine (EI 200), 4x5" Tech V (image is about half the frame), Symmar 210/5.6 convertible at f:5.6, handheld, 1/15 sec. to catch a little motion.
    They must have been seeing spots for hours afterwards...

    Thanks for the help,

    Lachlan

  3. #13
    df cardwell's Avatar
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    Good one david

    Metz 60, Norman 200 = more or less a Press 5/25

    Or a 3, or even a lowly AG1

    .

    Think about how many flash pictures you'll make with your 4x5, and see how many flashbulbs you can find for free.

    The size of the bulb determines the size of the reflector.

    A little tilt-a-mite works great with 1s and 3s. A flashcube shooter is great with a 4x5.

    d
    "One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid,
    and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"

    -Bertrand Russell

  4. #14
    Pragmatist's Avatar
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    Good question

    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb
    If you want the effect of the old reflector with the convenience of electronic flash, I've seen Graflex flashguns with the guts of a Norman LH-2 head stuffed in the battery case and a flashtube socket in place of the old bulb socket. It looks like a fairly straightforward modification. Not sure what guide number you get with that.

    As far as the falloff issue goes in the Weegee days, I wonder how much of that was due to the fact that they were using 135mm and 127mm lenses that just barely covered the format and might have been on the wide side for the flash reflector, and how much was the flashbulb pattern.
    That's a good question, David. Next time I get a hankering to startle bystanders, I will compare the 135 Wolly with a 135 Fuji and see what comes up.

    I have read somewhere about the Norman conversion (LF or Graflex forums I think), but have never found any pictures or project description of the conversion. I have heard that the conversion is very easy, although it's a tight fit to make everything work. If anyone has some details of doing this, please post a source!
    Cheers,

    Patrick

    When you come to a fork in the road, take it...

  5. #15

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    http://www.largeformatphotography.in...equipment.html there is a little blurb of how a guy fit a lh-2 in 3 cell flash gun.

  6. #16
    MattKing's Avatar
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    My Metz 60 series flashes (60CT1 and 60CT2) are great pieces of kit, but they certainly don't offer the open shadows that those wonderful salad plate size reflectors used with big flashbulbs do.

    Of course, they also recycle, rather than expire, so I am not complaining.

  7. #17
    Donald Qualls's Avatar
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    Just my opinion, but I think most of the difference between the old flashbulb photos and those made with strobes is the reflector size. A photoflash in a 6" bowl acts like a light source six inches across -- the biggest reflector I've seen on a factory-built strobe was about two inches across, and most are smaller than that. That makes a strobe act more like a "point source" compared to the extended source of a large reflector -- which means the shadows cast by the flash have relatively hard, sharp edges compared to those made by a large reflector, giving an effect like the difference between a bright overcast and direct sun.

    That said, it's a lot cheaper to shoot a few #5 bulbs now and then than it is to get a strobe with the same guide number and remount it in a large reflector. I wonder, though, if you couldn't mount a common strobe backward, with a diffuser on the lens, and then reflect that light from a bowl reflector to get a light quality similar to a bulb in a big bowl? Or use a bounce flash firing upward into an diffuse bowl? Anything that will get the light to shine from a larger area instead of what amounts to a point from several feet away...
    Photography has always fascinated me -- as a child, simply for the magic of capturing an image onto glossy paper with a little box, but as an adult because of the unique juxtaposition of science and art -- the physics of optics, the mechanics of the camera, the chemistry of film and developer, alongside the art in seeing, composing, exposing, processing and printing.

  8. #18
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Qualls
    Just my opinion, but I think most of the difference between the old flashbulb photos and those made with strobes is the reflector size. A photoflash in a 6" bowl acts like a light source six inches across -- the biggest reflector I've seen on a factory-built strobe was about two inches across, and most are smaller than that. That makes a strobe act more like a "point source" compared to the extended source of a large reflector -- which means the shadows cast by the flash have relatively hard, sharp edges compared to those made by a large reflector, giving an effect like the difference between a bright overcast and direct sun.

    That said, it's a lot cheaper to shoot a few #5 bulbs now and then than it is to get a strobe with the same guide number and remount it in a large reflector. I wonder, though, if you couldn't mount a common strobe backward, with a diffuser on the lens, and then reflect that light from a bowl reflector to get a light quality similar to a bulb in a big bowl? Or use a bounce flash firing upward into an diffuse bowl? Anything that will get the light to shine from a larger area instead of what amounts to a point from several feet away...
    Donald, as scary as it may seem, I think we think alike

    I think that the Metz reflector card does some of this, but is still too diffused.

    Are Alien Bees a little bit like the old reflectors?

  9. #19
    df cardwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing
    .... edit

    Are Alien Bees a little bit like the old reflectors?
    no

    but a little tilt-a-mite, nikon, or darn near ANY bulb flash change things considerably.

    and if you have a real graflex variety flash, use the durn thing with BULBS
    "One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid,
    and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"

    -Bertrand Russell

  10. #20

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    Lachlan, the least expensive, at today's prices for used equipment, huge potato masher with useful features is probably the Agfa 643 CS. According to a simple, naive test (set flash on tripod in a large room, set flash meter on another tripod 10' from the flash, fire flash, read meter) mine is about 1/2 stop below rated power at full output. Biggest drawback is that according to the user's manual at full power flash duration is 1/200.

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