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  1. #11
    Lachlan Young's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm
    Jason, I have a 65/8 Ilex, middle sib of yours. There's also a 47/8, baby sib. By all accounts, these are no worse than, possibly a little better than, the equivalent f/8 Super Angulons. I'm as delighted with my 65/8 Ilex as I am with my 47/5.6 SA, i.e., very.

    If we're lucky the kid will stick around long enough to lose a little of his ignorance.
    Oi! I already thought that some of the Wollensaks were hugely underrated - it was just the Ilexes I was less sure about. How rare are these Ilex wides anyway?

    Lachlan

  2. #12
    jimgalli's Avatar
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    Many of the Ilex lenses made during the Caltar era of the late 1960's are stellar. I particularly like the little 165mm Caltar f6.3 that turns up in the early Copal 0 shutter. Nice as pie. Here's a 190 - 300 convertible (re-shuttered) that is a modern plasmat VERY much like Schneiders Symmar of the same era. This was also an Ilex product. When I think Wolly, I'm usually thinking earlier soft on purpose stuff. I confess to not paying much attention to their late offerings. Kodak Commercial Ektar's are well loved of course. A favorite of mine is a diminutive Kodak Anastigmat f7.7 170mm that started life on some UK product of the '50's. It is in a nasty Ibsor shutter but the glass is beautifully single coated. I shot it next to a Zeiss Protarlinse Serie VII of the same combined length as a comparison once upon a time just knowing the pricey Zeiss would blow the Kodak away. Kodak won hands down. I think I paid all of $38 for that lens. Still need to fix the shutter though.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep..to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot, 1949

    http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com

  3. #13
    Lachlan Young's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimgalli
    Many of the Ilex lenses made during the Caltar era of the late 1960's are stellar. I particularly like the little 165mm Caltar f6.3 that turns up in the early Copal 0 shutter. Nice as pie. Here's a 190 - 300 convertible (re-shuttered) that is a modern plasmat VERY much like Schneiders Symmar of the same era. This was also an Ilex product. .
    What size shutter would it require to be allowed to breathe freely?
    Quote Originally Posted by jimgalli
    When I think Wolly, I'm usually thinking earlier soft on purpose stuff. I confess to not paying much attention to their late offerings. Kodak Commercial Ektar's are well loved of course. A favorite of mine is a diminutive Kodak Anastigmat f7.7 170mm that started life on some UK product of the '50's. It is in a nasty Ibsor shutter but the glass is beautifully single coated. I shot it next to a Zeiss Protarlinse Serie VII of the same combined length as a comparison once upon a time just knowing the pricey Zeiss would blow the Kodak away. Kodak won hands down. I think I paid all of $38 for that lens. Still need to fix the shutter though.
    It seems that Kodak, despite not being especially adventurous with lens designs, refined already existing designs into world beaters - just look at the commercial Ektars - certainly one of the Kodak f7.7s is on my list and I may end up buying one if I can find a nice one at a good price.

    Thanks for your help,

    Lachlan

  4. #14
    jimgalli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachlan Young
    What size shutter would it require to be allowed to breathe freely?
    Any Copal 1 would do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lachlan Young
    It seems that Kodak, despite not being especially adventurous with lens designs, refined already existing designs into world beaters - just look at the commercial Ektars - certainly one of the Kodak f7.7s is on my list and I may end up buying one if I can find a nice one at a good price.

    Thanks for your help,

    Lachlan
    I have a splendid 203 7.7 from about 1963 I would sell but the neat little 170 is kind of scarce and I think I'll keep it. Figure a $ a mm for the 203 but that includes shipping to UK. jg
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep..to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot, 1949

    http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com

  5. #15
    joneil's Avatar
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    Ilex Paragon Anastigmat series of lenses are basically very good tessars. I use a 6 1/2 inch version myself (about 163mm?), covers 4x5 with room for movements. Probally would cover close to 5x7 straight on if stopped down to F22.

    Wollensak 15 inch (about 380mm) Tele-Raptar is also a very good lens. Big, heavy, not really highly portable if backpacking for long periods, but a good, surpizingly sharp lens. I use one of these too.

    Last - in enlarging lenses - Wollensak 161mm enlarging raptar is a very nice lens for 4x5 work in the darkroom

    Last one - Wollensak 90mm wide angle raptar. I long since sold mine. A dim lens, but very smalla nd lightweight. Only drawback was almost no room for movements on 4x5, but a very sharp lens.

    joe

  6. #16
    Charles Webb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimgalli
    Any Copal 1 would do.


    I have a splendid 203 7.7 from about 1963 I would sell but the neat little 170 is kind of scarce and I think I'll keep it. Figure a $ a mm for the 203 but that includes shipping to UK. jg
    Jim, I have one of those little buggers in a Supermatic shutter, it is a dandy!
    Got it in the late fifties on a trade, let it bounce around in a drawer for a couple years, then finally mounted and played with it. Wow, mine is not for sale.

    Charlie........................
    BTW, I have made some very good negatives with a Russian Industar of about 250mm, glass is excellent, but the barrel it is mounted in is pretty
    poor.

  7. #17
    Jim Noel's Avatar
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    There are probably more execllent lense out there with old or lesser known names than there are Schneiders, Nikkors and Rodenstocks.

    There were an awful lot of beautiful and sharp images made prior to 1950, and even prior to 1920.
    Jim
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Films NOT Dead - Just getting fixed![/FONT]

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachlan Young
    Oi! I already thought that some of the Wollensaks were hugely underrated - it was just the Ilexes I was less sure about. How rare are these Ilex wides anyway?

    Lachlan
    65 and 90 Ilexes are around, often badged Caltar, but unless you make a lucky find both are on or above the upper end of your price range and the shutters will probably need CLAd. 47s are too short for you and quite uncommon. Come to think of it, the 65 just barely covers 4x5, you'd be better off with a 90. Use Google, search for Acugon to learn more about them.

    Use Google more, search eBay completed auctions more. Part of the LF way of being, especially among those of us with inadequate budgets for what we hope to do, is DIY. This goes for information as well as for gear.

    If you don't have a decent normal lens yet for your 4x5, concentrate on getting one before going farther.

    You asked about Heliars. Heliar is a Voigtlaender trade name. Before Cosina bought the right to use V's trade names Heliar usually meant a 5/3 very nearly symmetrical lens. Few other makers used the formula. Dallmeyer Pentacs are f/2.9 Heliar types. EKCo made a handful: 50/4.5 & 75/4.5 Enlarging Ektars;, 63/8 Microfile Ektar; 100/3.5 & 105/3.7 Ektar. There are some heliar formula process lenses, all f/9 or thereabouts, quite narrow angle, and nearly always found in barrel. Sounds odd, but Voigtlaender's Apo Skopar process lenses are heliar types.

    If you want a Heliar that will cover 4x5, you'll have to buy a Voigtlaender Heliar. Or an Apo Lanthar. Out of your price range and way out of your price range, respectively.

    This will sound odd coming from me, since I have a bad case of it (not with respect to 35 mm gear, though), but acquiring lenses solves little. Get what you can afford, go shoot and be happy. Most of all, go shoot.

    If you must buy lenses, pay bottom dollar or don't buy. Don't try to keep up with the Gallis of this world unless you can wheel and deal as Jim does.

    There's a pretty little 165/6.3 CZJ Tessar closing tomorrow on eBay. Too exensive for me (to give you an idea, the last /6.3 Tessar I bought was a 150 CZJ in barrel, 1912 vintage, that cost 16.05 euros plus postage, the one before was a 5 3/8" B&L in Compound, also 1912 vintage, that cost $25 at a camera show) but it might do for you IF you have a shutter you can hang it in front of. If not, don't buy it.

    Yours in bottom fishing,

    Dan

  9. #19

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    Lots of great Wollys and Ilex lenses out there. Out of production, yes but unclean? Hardly. If you're looking for soft portrait lenses, Wollensak made a slew of them that are considered classics (Verito & Vitax to name a few).Ilex also took the ball that Kodak dropped when they discontinued the Commercial Ektar and stood toe to toe with Schneider until they (Ilex) went out of business(but it wasn't because of inferior products) The Commercial Ektar is still with us but now its Congo and made in Japan(and multi-coated)

    Karsh reputedly used a 375mm Ilex, Hurrell used a Wollensak Verito. These 'togs could and often did use any lens they wanted, and Ilex and Wollensak were up there with the rest with no apologies.

    Fear not the Ilexs and Wollys in good condition....most of them offer good value for the money (and considerably less money at that)

  10. #20

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    Lachlan - You seem to be getting some excellent answers to your question. Nothing worthwhile I can add, but I wanted you to know I found your "unclean" brands phrase very amusing. Given way the Big Name lenses seem to have an almost religious following, I'm sure you wouldn't have to look too hard to find people who would consider the Lesser Brands to be "unclean" or close to it. I'm glad this opinion isn't shared by all, since someone is sending me an Ilex Paragon of some sort. Just to be on the safe side, I think I will start taking my darkroom chem gloves when I go to the post office.

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