There's a Cooke Series II Aviar 178mm on Ebay just now. A Cooke at f4.5 has a delicious look. Last evening a coated 190mm Ektar in a #4 Ilex finished at $67 or some rediculous number less than 70 bucks. The new owner can feel safe that if he took the wonderful Ektar elements out and threw them in the trash, he could probably re-list the shutter as a Goerz Artar shutter wannabe and sell it for $175. Pity. A coated 190mm f4.5 Ektar is as smooth as a '52 Buick straight eight. Contact me offline if you'd like to play with an ancient Bausch & Lomb lantern lens of about 8" length. It's a triplet like the Aviar but has no aperture no shutter. It's up to the photog to figure out how to make it do it's magic.