Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,942   Posts: 1,557,579   Online: 1168
      
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 37
  1. #11

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern Aquitaine
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    4,913
    Dear Jorge,

    I think you may have missed my point, possibly because I did not express myself well. After all, what do you mean by learning to do something well and enjoying it? What you like in a general sense, I may regard as rubbish, and vice versa; but if you ask me a specific question, such as 'Is this suitable for exhibition' or 'Could I sell a book on this?' it's a lot easier to answer. I am not necessarily pointing him in a commercial durection, but I (and anyone else doing a worthwhile critique) must understand what he wants to know and where he wants to go, i.e. his direction, commercial or no.

    Without a direction, it is next to impossible to give (or receive) any direction other than camera-club platitudes. It is also extremely difficult to criticise at second hand, from the screen, without seeing original prints. I'd be grateful for your reaction to the same piece in the Photo School about critiques, which was written to address this specific point.

    Congratulations, by the way, on your recovery, and the very best wishes for further progress.

    Cheers,

    Roger

  2. #12
    MenacingTourist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New Jersey
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    895
    Images
    30
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
    OK: what are you looking for?
    Hard to say.
    I'm interested in portraiture but depending on the type of camera I use the feeling changes. LF feels rather formal and I am in love with the tones and richness that the very old lenses impart combined with the dense pyro negatives. MF is a little more fun and a little more loose and maybe a little more modern feeling. Most of all I like the "stillness" element in portraiture regardless of what format is used.

    If this relates to fine art, commisions, publications or even weddings then that is where I'd like to go.

    My limitations are I don't have a studio or lights since I moved. I still have a reflector though! I also don't have an enlarger. Contact printing is my best option and the 5x7 or even 4x5 is what I spend most of my time with.

    The photographers I admire most (but don't necessarally want to copy) are Mortensen, Avedon, Penn, Ritts and Mary Ellen Mark.

    Hope that helps.

  3. #13
    Gay Larson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    1,209
    Images
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge
    I have to disagree with this, there is nothing wrong with wanting to learn to do something well and enjoy it. Why does he have to focus on the money right away? Why does he have to have a direction?

    I started doing this because I love it and even if I could not sell one print I would still be doing it!
    well I'm still doing it and haven't sold a print in two years!! I sold some at the only show I had two years ago so I thought there was hope. perhaps not and yet I carry on.
    Prints available in the APUG GAllery
    www.gaylarsonphotography.com

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    4,530
    After all, what do you mean by learning to do something well and enjoying it?
    Just that, the pleasure is in the learning, seeing the progress, knowing that at the end of the day you strived for something better.

    but I (and anyone else doing a worthwhile critique) must understand what he wants to know and where he wants to go, i.e. his direction, commercial or no.
    As I understand it, Alan was presenting his first try with a view camera and an almost impossible lens to use, and you come out rainingon his parade with all these notions about direction, blah, blah, blah......The guy did an outstanding job for a first run! Where the pictures perfect, no they were not, were they very good given the equipment and the little practice he has had, yes they were!!!!

    This idea that you need to "know" where someone is going to be able to give a critique smacks me of arrogance, what is wrong with telling a beguinner "you are on the right path, keep working on it" and worry about the "direction" once he is acomplished technically? Telling someone "hey, dont waste your time until you know what you want to do" to me is one of the most discouraging things you can say.

    I have never read or seen one of your books ( I guess the subject matter never appealed to me if I saw them) but I have read you have written something like 50 books, would it have killed you to give him a few pointers instead of beating your own drum and tell us who you have critiqued for? WHat is Alan supposed to do? tell you, "Hey Roger, I want to be like Avedon or Dermachelier....can you now give me a cirtique? Is this what is required?

    IMO Alan's photography will take the direction that inspires him and makes the journey enjoyable, and does necessarily requires and 10 step plan to become Ann Geddes....

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    4,530
    Quote Originally Posted by Gay Larson
    well I'm still doing it and haven't sold a print in two years!! I sold some at the only show I had two years ago so I thought there was hope. perhaps not and yet I carry on.
    Well, if you sold some there is certainly hope!!! I think your problem is you have been sitting on your ass posting at APUG instead of promoting yourself and your work... Get ot it bubba....

  6. #16

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern Aquitaine
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    4,913
    Quote Originally Posted by MenacingTourist
    I'm interested in portraiture but depending on the type of camera I use the feeling changes. LF feels rather formal and I am in love with the tones and richness that the very old lenses impart combined with the dense pyro negatives. MF is a little more fun and a little more loose and maybe a little more modern feeling. Most of all I like the "stillness" element in portraiture regardless of what format is used.
    Dear Alan,

    In that case, I'd say than indeed you are doing well. Within the limitations of the lousy monitor on my internet computer I was well taken with the black and white portraits; the simplest seemed the best to me -- though I suppose that the 'in-studio' portrait was actually quite complex and also one of the best. When I say 'quite complex' I'm not being arrogant or patronizing, pace Jorge, just comparing it with the simplicity of the other portraits.

    In one of your earlier posts I believe you said something about being too hung up on equipment or process, and you may be right, but I can't tell: I haven't seen your original prints. Your eye is what's important. It looks to me as though you take good portraits. Is it arrogant to say that? If so, tough. You asked for a critique. If I saw your work at Arles I'd probably say, yes, go on, keep shooting portraits, you're good now, and with practice you'll be bloody good one day: good enough to choose whatever route you want to choose to apply it. If it's just for fun, you're already good. If it's for profit (commissions, publication, whatever) it's only a matter of time.

    Incidentally, great to meet another Mortensen fan.

    Cheers,

    R.

  7. #17

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern Aquitaine
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    4,913
    [QUOTE=Jorge]Just that, the pleasure is in the learning, seeing the progress, knowing that at the end of the day you strived for something better.

    [CUT]

    As I understand it, Alan was presenting his first try with a view camera and an almost impossible lens to use, and you come out rainingon his parade

    This idea that you need to "know" where someone is going to be able to give a critique smacks me of arrogance, what is wrong with telling a beguinner "you are on the right path, keep working on it" and worry about the "direction" once he is acomplished technically? Telling someone "hey, dont waste your time until you know what you want to do" to me is one of the most discouraging things you can say.
    QUOTE]

    Dear Jorge,

    Read your own posts, then read mine.

    "You are on the right path". What does that mean if you don't know what the path is?

    Alan has answered my questions as best he can, and I have answered his questions as best I can: we are both probing our understanding, and I am trying to help him handle critiques. If you see my response as arrogant, fine, I'll put my hand up to being arrogant in your eyes, though not (I hope) Alan's.

    As I said in my original response, I've done critiques at arguably the biggest gathering of fine art photographers in the world, at Arles. And as I say in the piece on critiques in the Photo School at www.rogerandfrances.com, critiques are a transaction: if you don't like someone's critique, after you've asked for it, thank them politely and leave, even if you think they're an idiot. Don't attack them, or you'll look like an even bigger idiot for asking for an idiot's opinion.

    If you think that's 'blowing my own trumpet', then again, I'll cheerfully plead guilty.

    Cheers,

    Roger

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    4,530
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
    As I said in my original response, I've done critiques at arguably the biggest gathering of fine art photographers in the world, at Arles. And as I say in the piece on critiques in the Photo School at www.rogerandfrances.com, critiques are a transaction: if you don't like someone's critique, after you've asked for it, thank them politely and leave, even if you think they're an idiot. Don't attack them, or you'll look like an even bigger idiot for asking for an idiot's opinion.

    If you think that's 'blowing my own trumpet', then again, I'll cheerfully plead guilty.

    Cheers,

    Roger
    Yeah well, that is the problem with "experts" in these forums, many times their answers are more about themselves than what was asked, thus useless.....

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    6,242
    Quote Originally Posted by Gay Larson
    well I'm still doing it and haven't sold a print in two years!! I sold some at the only show I had two years ago so I thought there was hope. perhaps not and yet I carry on.
    Gay,

    The love of it (photography) is so vitally important and I really like the work of yours that I have seen. I think that selling work at your first show is a very good sign. Jorge addressed the necessary componant. Good luck.
    Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.

    Visit my website at http://www.donaldmillerphotography.com

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    6,242
    Alan, In response to your request, I think that you are doing well with the LF portraiture. Others have given you valid guidance. LF portraiture is not easy and you are to be commended for your work thusfar. Keep up the work. Good to see you posting.
    Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.

    Visit my website at http://www.donaldmillerphotography.com

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin