First LF field camera questions

[PaulBradley]

Hello everyone,

I've never done any "serious" photography on film before, but having recently brought a tilt-shift lens for my digital outfit and realised the utility of view camera movements, I'm really seriously considering selling the lens (which was rather expensive) and using the money for an inexpensive starter 4x5 field camera and accessories.

I'm looking at either an old Linhof Technika or a newer Tachihara for my sort of budget (I'd want to pretty much cover the cost of 2 lenses, some darkroom kit to develop my b&w (which I'd then scan to digital for printing, so no enlarger needed yet), some film holders, the whole lot out of what I get for the lens, which should be around £600 GBP (about $1200).) If I have to put a little money in I could.

Does anyone have any opinions on the pros and cons of these 2 cameras - I believe the Tachihara is probably a little more easily portable, and the Linhof better made even if I have to get a very old one. Portability is an issue, but not an enormous one - I will still mainly be shooting digital and using the view camera more sparingly, but some degree of portability is a must.

I would like to start out with 2 lenses, a normal lens and a wide angle - what lenses should I be looking at in my budget? Also, if cost means I have to make do with one at first which should I get, the normal or the wide? It will be mainly used for still life and landscapes I'd imagine, so my guess is get the wide, but perhaps I am mistaken.

Any other advice on buying older cameras such as lensboard compatibility with different lenses, availability of film holders and other spares, shutter reliability and having it tested (cost of doing so, and where?) and so on would be much appreciated, and although google is as always helpful if anyone has a link to a particularly good introduction to the view camera type FAQ, or a first time buyers guide, that would be fantastic.

Thanks

Paul

[Tom Perkins]

Paul,
You can read up on it pretty well at largeformatphotography.info, which has tutorials, camera and lens reviews, and also an active forum on large format photography. There are many threads on what lenses to get, on this board and on the large format board, and lots of advice. I would recommend getting just one lens to start and get used to the equipment and process before getting another, but that is just my two cents. My favorite slightly wider lens is a Schneider Symmar 135, but it does not support a lot of movements. If I really needed the extra movements and could swing it, I would try to get a Rodenstock Sironar S at that focal length. Most of the used field cameras in your price range use "Technika" compatible lens boards and that is probably a wise thing to look for in a camera as the lensboards are cheaper and can be used on different cameras after your habits spin out of control. Have a good time with it and don't fret too much, as this style of photography can be difficult if you worry it to death.

[PaulBradley]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your reply. Google is always your friend - I have just found lfp.info now, so I have a lot of reading to do!

Thankyou for the advice about getting just one lens - I have had the same advice on another forum where I posted the same questions, and although my instinct is to get two since I am a digital shooter I am getting the impression that I have to approach LF very differently - I am not a gear head, but it still takes a little bit of getting used to the idea of having just one focal length for everything - I am sure in the end it will make me a better photographer, so I will very carefully consider this advice.

I am not a complete optical dunce, but it hadn't occured to me before your reply that movements would be limited with the shorter focal length lenses, although now it seems obvious, although I try not to sweat corner performance and that kind of nonsense in my small format digital photography so it wasn't my first thought.

Are you saying 135mm is about as short as I could go and still get full movements? Landscapes will be the main use for this camera I'd imagine, and I suppose 135mm would be a good focal length to have for a single compromise lens as my first if I wanted something slightly wider than normal, and from the price I saw online when I googled it I guess I could afford a second hand 135mm Sironar S. Would I be doing myself a disservice by going for that focal length, or should I just buy a 150 - the difference seems small enough to my untrained imagination that I imagine either would be a reasonable starter lens, and that I'd just pay a little more to have 135mm rather than 150.

Thanks again for the advice, especially not to worry it to death - I'm pushing myself hard not to try and learn too much all at once - I guess until I get out there and take some photos with LF I won't really learn much of practical use.

Paul

[SWphoto]

If you're looking to save money on lenses, look at the newer used Caltars- Rodenstock lenses branded Caltar (Claumet Photo). Same lens, a lot less money.

[Ole]

A "very old" Technika will have limited movements compared to a newer Tachihara. But that depends on what you mean by "very old"? One frustrating thing with the early ones is that they have no direct front forward tilt - the most used movement in landscape photography. But that's "old" as in "before 1960".

Some wider lenses (like a 90mm Super Angulon or similar) allow more movements than most cameras are capable of - especially the "self-casing" types like the Technika. Again, the Technika is a wonderful instrument, but not my first choise for landscapes (even if it was my first LF camera).

[Bob F.]

One other consideration is bellows extension. This is of particular importance for still-life & macro work. To get an image life-size (1:1) on LF cameras you need to extend the bellows to twice the focal length of the lens. A 150mm lens will require 300mm of bellows, likewise a 90mm lens would require 180mm: you need to check if you are likely to want this level of magnification and if the camera you are interested in has enough bellows for your intended lens. Hiding somewhere on the lf.info site is the formula to calculate the extension which I forget at the moment - at greater magnification than life-size the extension required increases rapidly.

Multiply your favourite 35mm lens focal lengths by 3 to get close to the 5x4" focal length (28mm ~ 90mm, 50mm ~ 150mm etc). It's not quite the same as the frame shapes are different (a 90mm on 5x4 looks a bit wider than 28mm in 135 to my eyes for example) but it's a close approximation.

In order of variety and extent of movements and bellows extension length, the general rule, going from least to most, is: press camera, technical, field, monorail camera. The Technika is a technical camera and the Tachihara is a field camera.

The Tachihara is a good camera but you may also consider the Shen Hao which sells at about the same price and has more movements, but is a bit heavier. Both cameras are very popular.

A wide-angle lens, because it is closer to the film than a longer lens will, all else being equal, have less coverage at the film plane. But, all things are not always equal. A lens like the aforementioned 90mm SA (a very popular lens) is designed to have a wider angle of view than most lenses and so will have more than sufficient coverage in practical use. The converse problem here is that the lens is now so close to the film that the bellows are now likely to be tightly compressed, considerably hindering movements. The best solution here is to use interchangeable bellows (the Tachihara may not allow this IIRC) and fit wide-angle bellows which will restore full movements to you. An alternative is a recessed lens-board but the shutter controls are awkward to reach and although this will restore some movements will not give enough room for all, although what you do get may be sufficient for your purposes, especially in landscapes where a little movement tends to go a long way.

Good luck, Bob.

[PaulBradley]

Bob,

Thanks for the detailed reply. Lots to think about. From what you've said I suspect a 90mm lens (or therabouts) will be a best one-lens solution for landscapes and macro work. Someone on another forum told me that field cameras do not have rear movements, which I think I will want, so I think I have narrowed it down so far to wanting a monorail with a 90mm lens and possibly a 150 as well, with two sets of bellows to allow me to shoot both at high extensions for macro, and with good movements available when using the wider lens. Oddly enough though, the Shen Hao does have rear movements - I take it this is unusual for a field camera? Are bellows generic - ie. can I buy any set of 5x4 bellows and they will fit any 5x4 camera? Otherwise, is availability of parts like bellows good for most of the budget monorails I will be looking at?

I looked on lfp.info and found this: "You need an extension of two focal lengths to get a lifesize picture. After that, every increase of one focal length gives you one whole number of magnification", so to go to 2:1 (I cannot see wanting to go bigger than this) I would need, with a 90mm lens, 270mm of extension - even 3:1 would be possible (albeit only just, and at the cost of movements) with a Shen Hao with a 90mm lens, so I'm sure that would easily satisfy my macro needs.

I am looking at the Shen Hao website now - the HZX45-IIA looks like it suits my needs, and is within budget. I will do some more research on this camera I think - does this seem like the right model for me to be looking at to you, or is there another Shen Hao that would be better?

[PaulBradley]

A couple more questions - the HZX45-IIA has no front shift, but I can surely accomplish just the same using the rear shift can't I? Are the front and rear shifts just additive, or is there some particular reason I can't think of that I would want/need front shift?

Also, it does not seem to have a revolving back. Does this mean I cannot use it in portrait orientation, or can the film simply be loaded into the holder in a different orientation - inconvenient perhaps, but not insurmountable if that is the case, although I would need some way to do this in the field - I take it it's possible to do this reasonably practically in a dark bag ?

Thanks again for answering all my newbie questions - I don't want to post stuff that I could google, but in this field it seems some of my questions are not so easily answered that way.

Paul

[PaulBradley]

Well I just answered my own question about the revolving/rotating back, since I found that is not a limitation and simply means the back must be removed to rotate it, no problem.

I am still unsure about the need for front shift though.

[PaulBradley]

Everyone - thanks again for all your help. I have emailed an ebay seller to see if he is willing to hold a Sinar P on deposit for me, so hopefully I have an LF camera. I have decided I'm willing to sacrifice the weight and portability for the build quality and movements.

Thanks again for all your help.

Paul