New (old) Zeiss/Goerz toys - 16x18 anyone?

[outwest]

I picked up a couple of barrel lenses today. One is a Zeiss Anastigmat marked 16x18. It appears to be at least a 550mm f/16 which should make it a Wide Angle Rectilinear and the reflections seem to match this. Exact length determination will have to wait until morning. The markings are painted instead of being engraved so possibly made under license by Bausch & Lomb or someone. Slotted for Waterhouse stops. The other lens is a 12 inch f/6.8 Goerz Syntor, a dialyt type, with US stops. The serial number would place it about 1906, I believe. The Vade Mecum says 68 to 70 degrees, so that is, what, 11x14?

[ongarine]

If it is a Zeiss Anastigmat it is not a Wide angle rectilinear.
If it is around 600 mm and f16 it is a series V
Maybe a more carefull view of the lens give you more informations

[Ole]

A Zeiss lens marked "Anastigmat" will never be a Wide Angle Rectilinear - nor a Weitwinkel-Aplanat.

[outwest]

Point taken. On better measurement this morning, it appears to be about a 580mm f/18, thus apparently a Series V. However, it is a 2+2 from the reflections (2 strong, 1 weak each half) and not a 2+3 like the Series V Protar. The halves are not symmetrical (but close). This seems to place it in the very early Zeiss anastigmat period right about 1890 when they were building lenses to replace similar RR's. How does this sound? Also, I take it that these were process lenses which helps explain the 16x18 to me. I think that would be an awkward film format for pictorial work. On the down side, the built in shade makes it a hair too large for my Luc:-(

[Ole]

The Zeiss Anastigmat f:18, also known as Protar Serie V, is 2+2. Nothing unusual there. The focal length is unusual, but far short of the longest, a whopping 1660mm...

[outwest]

Right again. I got the V (2+2) mixed up with the I and II (2+3). On the up side, I found a set of Waterhouse stops on the shelf that, while not the correct size, will work and at least give me f/45 and f/64. Guess I'll have to make a proper set. I got the back group off the Syntor and got them cleaned up; still working on getting the front off. It seems to have an interesting soft/sharp look wide open on the GG.

[outwest]

I just got around to mounting the Protar and the Syntor in boards for my 8x10 and, now that I can measure exactly, the Protar is a 600mm. The Syntor, even with stopping down, was leaving the corners very soft and swirly. I couldn't believe that was correct and figured an element had been reversed in its past. The front and rear inner elements had the same thread and were close to identical but I tried swapping them first with no effect. It had to be an outer element and I managed to slide the rear one out of the mounting (it hadn't moved when I originally cleaned it). I reversed it and that did the trick. Tomorrow, I'll burn some silver with them and a 420mm Dogmar and a 475 Rapid Rectilinear in a mailing tube mount (and an old 300mm Dagor as a benchmark). So, if you happen to have an old Syntor and would like a portrait lens with a very sharp small center fading to very soft and swirly corners, just reverse the rear element.

[RidingWaves]

Do you think that trick would work with other Dialyt types? Looking for a 'portrait' lens for 4x5 without the petzval price.

[outwest]

I think a better approach would be to use Mark Sawyer's (on the LF list) solution of 99 cent magnifying glasses from the dollar store. He got 9.5, 12, and 14 inchers at about f3.8 for his students. I saw some of the prints at Foto3 and they were beautiful.