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  1. #1
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    Do you "cheat" the start marks with rollfilm backs?

    Hello,

    I have two 6x7 rollfilm backs for 4x5. One is a modern-style Horseman and the other is a Graflex RH-10 (lever wind). I have not used the Horseman yet, and the last time I used the Graflex was several years ago.

    When I load Ilford film into my Mamiya SLR bodies, I always need to turn it one full turn past the start marks in order to get the first shot onto the roll. With Fuji color films, I need to go 1/2 turn past the mark. It happens like this with both of my Mamiya 645 bodies (and the third one that I sold), and on my RZ. It does not happen with my Super 23 or C33 (both 1960s cameras). The cameras with inserts are the ones that are always off: the ones that wrap the film around so it is emulsion up. The ones that load the film directly into the camera emulsion down without using inserts are always right on. Ilford and Fuji are always 1/2 turn off from each other as well.

    Next, since the RZ and M645 inserts are similar in design to the Graflex and Horseman inserts for 4x5, in you all's experience, do you need to make adjustments for the first frame with either Horseman or RH-10 backs?

    My expected response is that something is wrong with all three of my M645s and my RZ, or with the way I am loading my film into my Mamiya SLRs.

    Thank you in advance.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 03-24-2009 at 05:17 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  2. #2
    Ian David's Avatar
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    My 6x7 Horseman back works fine with Ilford films, without any cheat necessary. I just line up the arrow in the hole and everything is sweet - 10 exposures evenly spaced.

  3. #3
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    My RB67 backs work fine with Ilford film at the indicated start point too.



    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  4. #4
    martyryan's Avatar
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    both of my m645's and my RB67 work well with all of the films I have tried.

    Marty

  5. #5
    kraker's Avatar
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    No problem whatsoever with my Mamiya C3 and 120 film or my Bronica RF645 and 120 or 220 film. Tried many brands, always works like a charm.

    shuttr.net
    -- A sinister little midget with a bucket and a mop / Where the blood goes down the drain --

  6. #6
    bsdunek's Avatar
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    Same with my Mamiya 23 Press backs - line up the arrows with the marks, close the back and everything is OK. Perhaps something is worn in your back causing it to mis-index.
    Bruce

    Moma don't take my Kodachrome away!
    Oops, Kodak just did!


    BruceCSdunekPhotography.zenfolio.com

  7. #7
    Lopaka's Avatar
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    My Mamiya 645 and RZ are both fine - with Ilford, Fuji and Kodak films. All come out with similar amount of space at beginning and end of roll without needing to fudge the load.

    Bob
    "I always take a camera, That way I never have to say 'Gee, look at that - I wish I had a camera'" -Joe Clark, H.B.S.S.

  8. #8

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    No problem with my Bronica SQ Ai or my TLR or Holga...EXCEPT with Adox film....first frame is always cut off, even when I cheat the start...go figure. I have not worked out what that costs me in film (not cheap at 8.3% loss, but I love the film too much to complain. K

  9. #9
    DJGainer's Avatar
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    I never noticed any issue with Fuji or Ilford in my RB67 Pro-S backs. Line up the arrows, advance to frame 1, and all frames were on the roll.

  10. #10
    El Gringo's Avatar
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    My RB back works fine, I've tried a number of different film makes and never had the problems you describe.

    As you've exprienced this with a number of different cameras it makes me think that user error could be the problem, maybe the paper is slipping a bit on the takeup reel after you've put the insert into the back?
    Rhys

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