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  1. #11
    Bruce Osgood's Avatar
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    The repeating of the problem across the film would suggest to me it is not the camera but the processing. Don't have an answer but I stay away from 6 4X5 sheets in the Jobo, 4 max and I don't use the wings.

  2. #12

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    @pupfish
    The sheets didn't stick together. But I'll try with just two sheets just to be sure. I don't remember having the problem when I had developed just two sheets.

    @bdial
    I know of Jobo's recommendation. I alway use the high speed. I think, the tank is too small for inversion. I would have to fill it completely so there would be no air in it. Inversion would not mix the chemicals sufficiently then.

    @Bruce
    As I understand it Jobo invented the wings as an improvement to prevent uneven development. But I will try with fewer sheets in the reel.

    Thanks for your help so far. I will try the next sheets today. I hope to get hold of the two sheets in question first (I don't know exactly which they are in a stack of sheets. So it can take some time to present results)

    Ulrich

  3. #13
    polyglot's Avatar
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    Orthogonal can also mean "at 90 degrees to". A more general definition would be "does not correlate with". Anyway.

    My only guess as to the problem at hand is that if it's not slipping in the drum, it could be a standing wave in your tank, i.e. due to the way the developer flows over the film, you might get ripples and/or some parts of the film might get more agitation. I don't do LF myself though so don't really know. I wouldn't expect it to be film stuck together - I've done that accidentally while putting 2 rolls of 120 in a spiral and not pushing the first one in far enough - one of the films will come out completely undeveloped and the other with an undissolved milky backing that requires a re-fix.

  4. #14
    Mick Fagan's Avatar
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    Ulrich, it is possible that with you using precisely 560ml of solution, you are just covering your inner films.

    I use the 2523 tank with 1 reel and four films, Jobo say 270ml, trust me when I say this just covers the sheets with a very small margin for error.

    Is your processor dead flat?

    Is your solution quantity exactly 560ml, or is it a tiny bit under?

    If either of these are not exact, then you haven't allowed enough room for error. Jobo do seem to give very little room for error, which is fine, but one has to be careful.

    I use 300ml instead of 370ml with my smaller tank, with your tank I would use 600ml.

    Looking carefully at the sample you have shown, those lines really look like wave lines. I'm purely guessing here, but it seems to me that it may be possible that the developer solution is just breaking over the inner films and it is running over in small waves.

    I'm not familiar with the 2509 reels with the wings, my reel doesn't have any wings as they weren't invented when I bought my reel and tank.

    Do you think it is possible that the wings may be just causing enough surface turbulence, to create small waves?

    When I first started rotary processing I was unsure of just how close the Jobo solution requirements were to either be dead correct, slightly under, or slightly over.

    I measured water to the correct solution capacity stated, very carefully, placed the reels(s) in the tanks without film, poured the water in whilst the tank was in the inversion position. Then I covered the top of the tank with a clear cling film (Klarsichtfolie?). Then I placed the tank on its side on a checked level surface.

    The results were interesting, basically there is no room for error.

    From then on I generally have always gone up slightly with solution quantity, especially with the first bath as the tank is bone dry and there is no used solution from the previous bath remaining.

    Using a Jobo lift as I do, there is dependent upon the tank type and size, different amounts of carry over solution. From about 14ml to 25ml on the bigger tanks. This amount by the way, is pretty close to the leeway you have with solution capacities in Jobo tanks, in my experience.

    Mick.

  5. #15
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    I hope you can salvage these, because I think that is an outstanding picture.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  6. #16
    Lee L's Avatar
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    Jobo also recommends a 5 minute presoak last I heard, in part to make times more similar to small tank inversion processing, but also to make development more even.

    Lee

  7. #17

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    For inversion use, you would fill the tank and use it in the same manner as a roll film tank, and not in the Jobo. It takes a lot of chemistry, but it works just fine, there is no problem in the developer mixing.

  8. #18

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    May be I have identified the culprit.
    The tank hast fillets (I don't know whether this is the right term for it) on the inside wall which correspond perfectly to the three stripes in the middle of the sheet. I have loaded the reel, according to Jobo's recommendation with the emulsion side out. If the frame was the outermost one, there may have been turbulences alongside these fillets which cased over development, which in turn makes lighter stripes in the positive.
    I will load the reel in future with the emulsion side in.

    If I fill the tank to the brink, I need 1200ml. Filling it with 600ml should fill the tilted tank in the processor up to the tube in the middle. So 270ml should be more than sufficient to develop a completely filled sheet-reel as it only uses about 10mm or so of the outer part of the reel. With 560ml I should be ok in any case in this respect.

    I keep you informed about how things will go on. Thank you all for your suggestions.

    Ulrich
    Last edited by Ulrich Drolshagen; 07-23-2009 at 11:23 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #19
    Lee L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulrich Drolshagen View Post
    I have loaded the reel, according to Jobo's recommendation with the emulsion side out. If the frame was the outermost one, there may have been turbulences alongside these fillets which cased over development, which in turn make lighter stripes in the positive.
    I will load the reel in future with the emulsion side in.
    My understanding was that emulsion side should always face the center core of the reel, and film base should face outward. Hope you've found the solution. Very likely the case if the pattern matches the tank

    Ribs might be a better English term than fillets.

    Lee

  10. #20

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    I just developed the last sheets of the lot two by two. They are all ok. I used the middle slot with the emulsion side pointing inward and attached the wings. In future I will load four sheets at maximum with the emulsion pointing inward and leaving the slot in the middle free.

    Ulrich

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