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  1. #11

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    The F line does not have geared movements or axis tilts; two overrated and unnecessary things for most photos. A luxury in studio, for sure, but extremely far from necessary, especially in the field.

    A few points regarding your OP:

    1. "Perspective" is how things appear relative to each other from a certain location. It is not something you can change with camera movements. The only thing that changes perspective is where you put the camera in relation to what you are shooting. What you are talking about is changing the shape of the image in order to counteract convergence of lines (visible or imaginary) within the composition.

    2. By eliminating/reducing this convergence, you are not "correcting" anything, but rather counteracting a lens' "correctness" in order to make it appear more like the images that result from the way that the human brain interprets the optical signals sent to it by the eyes. Your lens sees whatever is in front of it "correctly". Your film, however, does not have to take it as it comes, thanks to rear camera movements. Whatever you see on your ground glass before changing the shape of the image by moving the film is technically "correct". With rear movements, you are purposefully distorting the original image (wonky, as it actually is optically) in order to get the desired effect (straight lines, not as they actually are optically). You are "uncorrecting", not "correcting". Don't think that your lens is seing anything "incorrectly", because it is not. In fact, the types of movements you are talking about are used to combat the hyper correctness of the lens' seeing. Our brains adjust for convergence to some degree, while cameras have no brain to do so.

    So, you can't change perspective with camera movements, and altering the shape of the image with camera movements is just that; not "correcting".
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 01-02-2010 at 05:16 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by olleorama View Post
    Does the sinar F1 have geared movements?
    No, the Sinar F series doesn't have geared movements (which 2F/2F have gone through already). But the Sinar F (F1/F2) does have a couple of simple but genious gadgets (actually metering scales) which will help you quickly finding the correct angles for tilt and swing movements. There is also a DoF scale which is helpful in both finding which aperture is needed and finally where to set the focus in order to get the desired DoF and whatever you want sharp in the picture (usually everything).
    These gadgets are actually only measuring the distance when you focus on different parts in the picture, so there is nothing fancy or magic about it. Nor will it ever break down. But it was ingenious enough to render Sinar a world wide patent for quite a period of time (which b.t.w. have passed now). Anyhow, these measurements are already translated into either swing/tilt degrees or a suitable aperture opening. Nothing strange there either, these numbers have been known for ages too.
    Anyhow, see to that you get a Sinar manual (preferably with your camera). It's good reading in a very professionally made book, which covers lots of LF basics and everything about how to use the Sinar to its best.

    //Björn

  3. #13

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    The tilt scale on Sinars can be useful if you are in a rush, but do not trust the D of F scales, or any manufacturer's D of F scales, for that matter. They do NOT consider diffraction. Read this article to see what I mean: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/focus.htm.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  4. #14

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    Well, all DoF scales are calculated from showing an 8x10" print at normal viewing distance. I do mean all DoF scales, from d*****l to 8x10" film format. But at least the scales are indeed helpful for putting the focus plane exactly right, i.e. putting the back standart exactly in the middle of the fore and aft positions. (If they are e.g. 10mm apart, the correct placement is at 5mm and then you stop down until you're satisfied.) You can quite easily do this on any camera and it's easier on a LF camera and again easier on a monorail. There are tables etc. which you can find on the 'net with info on which aperture corresponds to which distance etc.
    Hmm, if I loose someone here the DoF focusing procedure on a Sinar is someting like this: After finding and setting the tilt/swing angles, you focus on the farthest object you want sharp. Then you zero in a sliding ring on the focusing knob. (This sliding ring have an aperture scale printed on it.) Now you focus on the closest object. Read what aperture (e.g. "16 2/3") the sliding ring is set on and transfer that setting to the lens. Last, turn the focusing ring back two full stops, so that the sliding ring reads "8 2/3". Done. This is fine if you want to print an 8x10" print, else you have to stop down more, but again, this is the same for each and every DoF scale you can find on this planet.

    //Björn

  5. #15
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    Okay, seems I can get a Cambo cheap locally. Although it seems to be a SCN. Will I survive with friction focusing? Or is it worthwhile to get a more expensive model?

  6. #16
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    I've had and used the Horseman LE and it is a great camera, indeed. With the short rail, you can use it outdoors too, without having a cart to haul it with. The Cambos are nice cameras, and although not in the league of Horseman or Sinar, they will do a very fine job. And you will do nicely with friction focus. If you are unsure, see if you can try the camera a bit before you buy it.

    I am not all that enamoured of the Sinar F line as others are - I find them clunky. But that's what makes questions like yours hard to answer: they are highly personal.
    “Do your work, then step back. The only path to serenity.” - Lao Tzu

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerevan View Post
    I've had and used the Horseman LE and it is a great camera, indeed. With the short rail, you can use it outdoors too, without having a cart to haul it with. The Cambos are nice cameras, and although not in the league of Horseman or Sinar, they will do a very fine job. And you will do nicely with friction focus. If you are unsure, see if you can try the camera a bit before you buy it.

    I am not all that enamoured of the Sinar F line as others are - I find them clunky. But that's what makes questions like yours hard to answer: they are highly personal.
    Jerevan,

    How short is the "short" rail that you are referring to? I've only seen the rail like the one you see in my avatar, I would be interested in something a bit shorter.

    Chuck

  8. #18
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    The cambo turned out to be a SC, I'm happy as a lark.

  9. #19
    Jerevan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPorter View Post
    Jerevan,

    How short is the "short" rail that you are referring to? I've only seen the rail like the one you see in my avatar, I would be interested in something a bit shorter.

    Chuck
    Chuck,

    The short rail I am referring to is 25 cm, making it long enough for a wide to normal lens in most situations. It makes the camera much more portable outdoors. I am not sure from your avatar if you have the telescoping rail or not. I found my short rail on Ebay. It is an amazingly sturdy camera. Rock solid when the knobs are locked down. I sold mine though and moved onto bigger (5x7) stuff.
    “Do your work, then step back. The only path to serenity.” - Lao Tzu

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerevan View Post
    Chuck,

    The short rail I am referring to is 25 cm, making it long enough for a wide to normal lens in most situations. It makes the camera much more portable outdoors. I am not sure from your avatar if you have the telescoping rail or not. I found my short rail on Ebay. It is an amazingly sturdy camera. Rock solid when the knobs are locked down. I sold mine though and moved onto bigger (5x7) stuff.

    Thanks,

    I'm going to have to keep a look out for one on ebay. My current one is the telescoping rail that adds more weight. I have a 210mm lens, the only time I would really need the telescoping rail is if I needed that length for a 1:1 magnification in which case I would need 420mm of lens to film distance. So far, I've not tried that.

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